00:00 – 03:15 – Intro

03:16 – 05:11 – Faith Mwangi-Powell intro

05:12 – 13:07 – What is child marriage?

13:08 – 15:15 – Why do people buy into the culture of child marriage?

15:16 – 16:12 – Citi Advert

16:13 – 22:04 – What is the link between climate change, girls and poverty?

22:05 – 30:04 – The Three C’s – Climate, conflict and COVID 

30:05 – 34:40 – Climate Confessions

34:41 – 35:36 – Outro

Show Notes

Girls Not Brides – The Global Partnership to End Child Marriage is an international non-governmental organization with the mission to end child marriage throughout the world.



Faith Mwangi-Powell  0:00  

I have a photograph of myself when I’m seven. I don’t have shoes on my feet. But I know I look at that girl and I know the dream she has, she wants everything. And I know that it’s not just me there are so many girls out there who want just as much and for that dream to be cut short at the age of 10 at the age of 11, at the age of 14, I think that’s just wrong.

Ben Hurst  0:34  

This is climate curious, the podcast for people who are bored, scared or confused by climate change.

Maryam Pasha  0:41  

I am I am Parsha, the director and curator at TEDx London and the co host of this podcast, alongside the amazing Ben.

Ben Hurst  0:47  

Hi, I’m Ben hearse, activist and advocate exploring what positive masculinity can look like and self confessed climate normy. Welcome to Climate Curious, live with TEDx London. We are here in London here in Covent Garden, and I am joined by an amazing guest co host today, too, are you? What do you do?

Daze Aghaji  1:16  

So I’m Daze and I’m still figuring out what I do. But a lot of my work is around social justice and climate. So it kind of takes me into the political space of working with government and running for election also takes me into the arts and culture space, we have creating like things like infographics, and word, graphics, very Gen Z, like I come from my content creation. But also working with like museums. So yeah, and then like, ultimately, I’m a grassroots organiser, I like to organise disruption on the streets. I’m sorry, as you said, you dislike on a, you know, Monday morning, while someone’s like, glued themselves to the floor. I mean, I am the person

Ben Hurst  1:57  

honestly, I’m not trying to Monday morning. So it’s to

Daze Aghaji  2:01  

me like this is a real reason I do it so I can n95 culture.

Ben Hurst  2:07  

So today, we’ve got a really interesting conversation coming up. And I think the thing that makes this one interesting is that this is in neither of our wheelhouse this, right. This is not like we were discussing this before. And this is not something that we ever talk about. But it’s also something that is so important to talk about.

Daze Aghaji  2:28  

Yeah. And this kind of Yeah, like when we talk about child marriages, it’s someone’s life, it’s the kind of, we have to create a society of where that’s not okay. So like, how do we do that? But then also, how do we hold the families who are going through it? And how do we like change the culture in a way that’s not colonialist as well, you know, there’s so many different, like, ways of looking at this issue, and how do we address it?

Ben Hurst  2:51  

Right? And how is it linked to the climate crisis? This?

Daze Aghaji  2:56  

Mother really thought about it? But then yeah, but then also, like, I’ve been working in climate space. So it’s kind of like, especially with young people, because a lot of my work is focused on youth engagement. So it kind of makes me think this is the time to have this conversation. In

Faith Mwangi-Powell intro

Ben Hurst  3:11  

the words of ACA alone, you don’t know now, but you’re going to find out. I would like to welcome our next guest to the stage, who is actually one of our former TEDx London speakers. And it was an absolutely amazing talk where she spoke about her relationship to child marriage and the work that she’s doing to end that in our society and in societies around the world. So our next guest on the podcast is Faith Mwangi Powell. She’s the CEO of Goza brides. The Global Partnership to end child marriage and faith believes that every girl has the right to lead the life that she chooses. By ending child marriage, we can achieve a safer, healthier, and more prosperous future for everyone. Girls, Not Brides is the only global partnership uniquely, entirely focused on building a worldwide movement to end child marriage and as its CEO, faith is responsible for catalysing the partnership and supporting the broader movement. So I’d like you to join me in welcoming Dr. Faith Mwangi Powell, I know that the people at home are not going to see this but I just need to I told you this already how much I love this jacket that you’re wearing. I just want to let you know that I really deeply appreciate the stars that you’re dropping on us today. Thank you so much, because it’s not easy. Everyone out there. I know you think that this is given I know that you think you look at us and you think Oh, well. Listen, this is hard work. So thank you Faith for everything that you do. Okay. So we want to we want to start at this, this place of of what it is that you do, and why it is that you do it. I think that that’s a really important conversation for us to have, right you’ve given a talk Some of us have listened to it. But we don’t want to assume that everybody that’s going to listen to this episode has heard the talk. So would you give us like a brief overview of the work that you’re doing? And and what brought you to this place of doing that work?

What is child marriage?

Daze Aghaji  5:12  

And I feel like also, just to add, like, I would love to know, like, how did you get here? Because it’s such an especially like, how did you kind of start to recognise the intersection between child marriage and climate? Because that’s one thing that I personally want to like figure out.

Faith Mwangi-Powell  5:28  

So how did I get here? What do I do? My everyday job is to work with amazing leaders from the globe across the world who are working, who wake up every day and wanting girls to have a better life. How did I get here, I got here, because I grew up in a village in Kenya, with a dad who believed that you girls deserve more. I grew up in a home where we were six girls and four boys. And all of us have PhDs. And what have you, we are all over the world changing the world, not because we are clever, is because somebody champion does. And I know my own neighbour, and a neighbour on the other day on the other side did not get that opportunity. So I walk in this world knowing that I’m very blessed and very privileged woman. And whatever I can do to make other girls and other women to feel as privileged as I do. I feel like it’s an assignment. It’s not a job. It’s like an assignment. And it’s something I want to do. So before I started working on child marriage, there was working to add FGM, female genital mutilation. And that’s another harmful traditional practice we tap in, happens to many women across the world and denies them the opportunity to be the women they need to be. So working in child marriage, to me is not an accident. It’s a choice that we need to be there to champion other girls like ourselves. And I remember myself, that’s more girl, and I have a photograph of myself when I’m seven. I don’t have shoes on my feet. But I know I look at that girl. And I know that dreams she has. She wants everything. And I know that it’s not just me, there are so many girls out there who want just as much. And for that dream to be cut short, at the age of 10. At the age of 11, at age of 14, I think that’s just wrong. And if there is anything we can do, if there’s anything I can do, if they’re not just me if I can be part of a movement, or a part of a group of people who want to do better for girls count me in, I don’t know I don’t I’m not the expert, the families, the communities, we work with other experts. But if I can be part of that conversation, for me, there is nothing, which gives me much satisfaction than that. And to be sitting here with you in London, from a village in Kenya, as a big dream, which has been dragged and achieved. I’m not sure they have a ghost dreaming. And I would like to be the one spearheading and championing them and saying, You can do this.

Ben Hurst  8:19  

Wow, oh, my gosh.

I hate these episodes. And I say I say this too much on the podcast, but there’s always these episodes where I’m like, I just You just have to listen, there’s not really anything you can say or add to the conversation. I do have some questions for you, though. I’m interested for people who don’t understand what the global picture of the situation is the global picture of child marriage, what is it that we are dealing with? And what is the the impact of that? On the girls you’re working with? What is what’s the impact on the girls and what’s the impact on their outcomes in life?

Faith Mwangi-Powell  9:09  

You did say you don’t like statistics, but I’ll throw you a few.

Break them down, easily to to grasp. So we define child marriage as any marriage for a girl below the age of 18 either married to us a same age or married to an older person. So in some cases, we’ve seen people getting married at 10 to a 40 year old at 14 to a 50 year old or even young unions of 12 year olds coming together and they married so it happens. So it’s any marriage for girl below the age of 18. That is how we define it. And even in this country in the UK, the law just changed this year. I actually girls are allowed to marry at 16. So the law just changed about April, I think that it’s being it was actually the last thing the Queen did to consent the bill before she died to change the law. So I’m really thankful for that, because that’s a big campaign for so many people to change that law. And I’m very grateful for that. So globally, 12 million girls are married below the age of 18. Every year, globally, that works out as 23 Girls, every minute, it works that one girl every three seconds, so we can calculate by the time we are sitting here having this nice conversation, how many girls are getting married, you can do the math. So I don’t know how long I’ll be talking. But you can figure it out. It’s a big, it’s a big, big component. So you can imagine that as you see it, as you go into the train, you can be thinking, I wonder how many girls have been married right now before I get home? So it’s a serious, serious issue. And what child marriage does is that it denies girls imagine a can see many of us are girls in this room. Imagine you being married at 18. All at 10. What are you doing when you were 10? Imagine somebody turning up and saying I’m going to be your husband? Stop there, make it personal. And imagine there is somebody else who is happening that today. So it’s a serious issue. So at 10 There are medical implications some girls get pregnant at 12. So imagine giving birth at 12 I’m a mother I waited until I was 32 to get a child like

imagine if you did 12 the implications that has. So that brings medical implications even death. there that you know giving birth. Then beyond that there are many medical this trauma. You know, I always say I just compare it I’ve been raped every day. So it’s trauma, Psych, psychosocial trauma. And then of course, you are denied your opportunity to go to school, because that is the prime that 10 That’s when you’re in primary six, or seven, or whatever grades you do here in the UK went to school in Kenya. So I don’t understand the grades here. But you’re in that very early primary school, you know, at 18 is when you are maybe going to university, you must be thinking that by 18, you have three children, come on, you know, it’s really tragic. So it denies the opportunity and the world we live in if you don’t have education, you’re just perpetuating a cycle of poverty. Because then how do you even get an income? You know, so there is so many implications of child marriage and how it effect girls, how I summarise is that it denies the girls the opportunity to be who they need to be nice to be CEOs, like myself, denies them to be doctors, it denies them that opportunity. To me that’s why it’s wrong.

Why do people buy into the culture of child marriage?

Daze Aghaji  13:07  

I think, yeah. For someone who, you know, I’ve never really had the conversation around child marriage. But why do people kind of buy into this cultural practice?

Faith Mwangi-Powell  13:19  

There are so many drivers of child marriage. The first one is poverty. Poverty is actually a big, a big issue. If you don’t have a choice, if you have five children in your home, you have to feed them, you have to clothe them, if you’re poor. Dowry seems like a good solution to solve the poverty problem. It’s also a social norm. It’s a cultural practice, that this is what my mother did. So this is what I’ll do to my children. It’s also in some places a safety thing, because when girls get out there and they get into teenage pregnancy, nobody wants them. So it’s better if they’re married then so that if they get pregnant, they are within the safety of marriage. So it’s a protectionist thing. So there are so many drivers, some people say it’s a religious thing. I don’t believe that I’m religious. And I’ve not seen anywhere in my own religion saying this is good. So there are so many issues with really perpetuated. And sometimes it’s also perpetuated by this culture of silence. Nobody wants to say anything. Nobody wants to challenge the status quo. People are so afraid of social sanctions. If you’re in a community and you say my own dad experienced that when he took us all to school, everybody was saying what’s the value of educating women? And he told me that he was a chief, so he had status already in the village. But he would have faced some sanctions to say, why are you going against the grain we don’t educate girls in our community, what’s happening? And we actually quite isolated as a family because we were like the family over there who goes to school and their daughters drive cars that we felt like we don’t belong just because we have I’d gone to school because on occasions we do a pair of shoe to school you know, there’s so many things which really make people want to belong so they adhere to things they don’t agree with because it makes them safe.

Citi Advert

Ben Hurst  15:15  

Every podcast needs a gut that’s greatest of all time. And ours is the global bank, Citi.

Maryam Pasha  15:22  

Citi is TEDx London and climate curious is headline partner, and has been with us every step of the way on this podcast, supporting our vision and encouraging us to be courageous and adventurous with our ideas.

Ben Hurst  15:33  

Instead of your typical boring ad, we actually thought you might be more interested to hear about some of the initiatives Citi has played apart. With the

Maryam Pasha  15:41  

support of the Citi Foundation, the British Asian trust, provides specialised business training to 600 young entrepreneurs, so they can earn a sustainable income.

Ben Hurst  15:49  

For example, Farrior, a young woman facing barriers to independence, took the digital acceleration course and was able to launch a microenterprise online and on social media,

Maryam Pasha  16:00  

it’s great to see projects like this supporting female education, and encouraging financial independence, which helps build resilience to the impacts of climate change.

Ben Hurst  16:09  

Maurice, one Citi,

Maryam Pasha  16:10  

thank you for making this podcast possible.

What is the link between climate change, girls and poverty?

Ben Hurst  16:12  

Now, back to the show. Now you gave gave a TEDx talk here earlier this year, and you spoke about the relationship between child marriage, forced child marriage and the climate crisis? And I’m interested in, and I’m sure that the listeners are interested also, in what that link is, like, if you had to describe that what would you say if you had to describe that? How would you describe that link?

Faith Mwangi-Powell  16:44  

I think I’ve talked about poverty. And I think and to also say that the conversation between climate change and Child Marriage is not a conversation we started this year or last year. This is a conversation we have heard for a very long time, but nobody was paying attention. Now climate change has become a big thing. Everybody’s talking about it. So it’s like, let’s have a conversation around these on the table. But the link is this. If you look at the Horn of Africa, where families are becoming desolate, because their crops are not yielding because of drought. Their cows are dying because they don’t have anything to feed the cows. They are literally people are being getting into desperate situations because they have no livestock, they have no no yields because of drought. And this drought is causing families to think, Okay, what is the alternative, and girls have become the commodity to sell. Because there is nothing else if you have six children, or your cows have died because of climate of drought, or your crops have not yielding, you need to feed your children. What do you do? It’s very easy for somebody to say I have few cows to give you for your daughter. That reduces the mouths to feed. So it is actually intertwined with poverty it is that it is intertwined with desperation. And really people household economy is being really desolated because of this climate change. We have seen in Malawi, the floods, causing a lot of devastation there. We’ve seen in Pakistan with the floods we’ve seen in Bangladesh, we’ve seen in Mozambique, these are things if you remember the farming in 2007. Save the world you remember, is it 2007 lots of girls were actually so vulnerable, that they were being sold into marriage as well. So this is a linkage bit of how families are getting really desperate, because of what climate change is doing to them. If you look, even, I look at my own home where I grew up. We have a big farm, we have a lot of coffee. In the end, we used to pick coffee when I was young, I go back home and I get very disappointed because that coffee is no longer there. Why climate change? And that was a source of income. That’s actually the coffee. Monday is what took me to school right now the families who are there don’t have that coffee anymore. So what’s happening to the girls in the village right now. So there are so many issues which are really making families very desperate because climate change is increasing vulnerabilities on the household level. And when vulnerabilities increase domestic issues in you know, violence increase, child marriage increases, because people are looking for ways to survive, because people have to survive.

Daze Aghaji  19:39  

How do you think the conversation has changed over the last years? Because you’ve been talking about how this conversation is something that’s been like it’s been had, right? But it’s only now that people are really starting to recognise the urgency of these issues.

Faith Mwangi-Powell  19:55  

I think the conversation has taken two turns there are people who are very simple Fettig and they understand and they can see the link. There are people who are saying, Oh, you guys, you gender people, you want to hijack our conversation, you want to just steal the limelight. When I did the TED Talk, one of the comments which really struck me,

Ben Hurst  20:17  

you can’t read those comments.

Faith Mwangi-Powell  20:19  

I read them. I was like, one of the comments which got me I was like, this woman is crazy. Who does she think she’s telling us about climate change? Climate change has nothing to do with child marriage, you know, God speak to whatever it was. And I sat there thinking, aha, i have hit a nerve. I wasn’t upset. I was actually very happy that somebody has heard. And they have reacted. Yeah, yeah. So I was really happy that somebody had, because that is that we want to evoke that anger. We want people to get angry, they will get over it. And then they will engage with the conversation, because in the past, it was like you’re talking to the wall?

Ben Hurst  21:02  

Right? Yeah. And so this, this is not a was this a conversation that you were having? 5-10 years ago in the past

Faith Mwangi-Powell  21:11  

when I worked on FGM? See, is it to 2015 we are having this conversation in Ethiopia, how how it’s affecting girls, because in some of the countries FGM, or female genital mutilation is a precursor for marriage, that girls who go through FGM, then they are called as adults, then they can be married. So we will talk about this that you could see an increase in child in FGM, because of the issues happening around climate change. So we were talking about that, but we were kind of not quite sure also whether it’s going anywhere. Yeah, it was a debate who nobody was really listening. Yeah. Now that people are listening, beating us pretty hard. I tell you, it’s it’s brutal out there. I’m sure. You know,

Ben Hurst  21:57  

streets are cold. I know.

Faith Mwangi-Powell  22:00  

What did I say?

The Three C’s – Climate, conflict and COVID 

Ben Hurst  22:04  

Oh, days, I’m, I’m wondering if you can guess right, we’ve got three words that begin with C. that are potentially I don’t know why I’m making this into a game, but that are making this worse. If you had to guess what those were, it’s not carbon. Just so you know, do you want to have a guess? At one?

Daze Aghaji  22:23  

making it worse? I always say maybe culture? Oh, because it’s like, yeah, because it’s like kind of, you know, if you’re not addressing the cultural aspect, I think a lot of the conversations around gender, it does play into these older cultural practices that we’re not really addressing, and they kind of like festering in a way of they’re just you get I mean, they’re getting worse and worse and worse, just because of that level of acceptability that there is

Ben Hurst  22:51  

I need to rewrite the question. So we’ve got four words. Culture was not one of the one I was looking for. But here’s a good one. Do you know what they are? Okay, don’t get me to tell you.

Faith Mwangi-Powell  23:07  

So we are looking at three, three words. Now we’re looking at climate change, we’re looking at conflict, and we are looking at COVID. So those are the three policy. So and we are seeing that with climate change. I’ve talked about it after we are looking at conflict, of course conflict increases vulnerabilities, humanitarian settings, and that when there are humanitarian crisis that people who are most at risk are women and girls, rape marriage, just shoot through the roof. And COVID There is an estimation that because of school closures, there is an estimated 10, I think, is 100. Millions more child marriages which are going to happen right by 2030. Just because of what COVID has done. Yeah. What COVID is likely to even be doing this undo by 2019. I keep telling people the world we woke up in in 2019 does not exist. We are in a very different world in 2019. We had hope child marriages were declining in Asia, child marriages were declining in Ethiopia, we were seeing progress. People are excited about change. COVID was also on the move. Now we we are in a verge of reversing some of those gains we have heard if we are not accelerating the efforts, really. I talked about peace, trade and climate change. Let’s have peace. Let’s have trade so that people have money, people have income. And then let’s address climate change. from a gender perspective. Let’s make it gender gender response. Let’s include women and girls in the solution because they know what they need to be able to do better in their own families. People have solutions. They just need to be given the opportunities.

Ben Hurst  24:54  

And two two things in this conversation really stand out to me right one is like the interconnectedness of all of the these issues, I think, for me is really clear now what the link is, first of all, but secondly, like how all of those other areas are also connected to the same issue. And the other thing that really stands out for me is that what you just said about girls, women and girls need to be involved because they know what they need. And you almost sit here as a living embodiment of that principle that you you as a person, when given the resources and the tools that you needed, know how to make the solutions, find the solutions. And for me, this is like a really heavy conversation, right? Quite an urgent conversation. Also, I’m wondering what kind of solutions we’re seeing in real time it because you speak about the idea of us seeing or in 2019, it was a time of hope. And we were, we could look at the world with optimism in our eyes, whereas now we are losing some of those gains that we’ve made. So is there any progress being made right now in real time?

Daze Aghaji  26:09  

And are there like, like certain solutions that can kind of weather the turbulence of this, like, moment of crisis that we’re currently in? Because yeah, there is going to be more pandemics and stuff in the future? How do we make sure that those don’t become something that adds to the issue that we’re already facing?

Faith Mwangi-Powell  26:28  

What gives me hope in my job every day is that I’m not doing this alone. Even as I sit here, I don’t feel like I’m sitting here on my own a sit here on behalf of over 1600 organisations in over 100 countries who wake up every day. And here’s what they do. So for me, the fact that there are people like that, and these are not individual, these are organisations with people, the fact that there are organisations like that, who care about this as much as I do, it gives me hope that we can what we did in 2019, we can do it again, right, that gives me hope. The other thing which gives me hope, which is, to me is amazing is that there are governments who are making really turning the tide, if you look at Sierra Leone, I was in the UN meeting last last two weeks. That’s where I got two weeks ago in New York. I got covered in New York, I was in this meeting in New York, and I met the minister of education in Sierra Leone, and the Minister of Sierra Leone has is transforming the way girls go to school in Sierra Leone. And he’s not alone, there are others. But he’s transforming that to the extent that they have target for girls going to school, they are going to allow even pregnant girls to go back to school, they are going to allow even married girls who are able to go back to school to go back to school. Because for me, while there is no silver bullet, and I say this a lot, education comes close, that if you give a girl education and opportunity, and I’m not just talking numeracy and literacy, it’s not about math, it’s really giving people skills so that they can use it. The third thing is when you hear governments giving cash transfers, to households to say, let’s give you conditional cash transfers, so that your girls can stay in school and your girls can stay home and not get married, if we can scale up those type of things, and be innovative, but also not just go always be the solutions. If we can sit down in the dirt with people, wherever they are, let’s let’s meet people where they are sit down with them and say, how do we solve this problem? You’d be surprised we are all champions of ourselves. Everybody wants the best for themselves. I have never met anybody who think I want to be in the streets or everybody, even the thug in the street, they want the best for themselves. Especially in the street, they want the best for themselves. So if we can actually sit down with them and say, What can I do? How can we do it together? You’ll be so amazed by the solution. And I think that is what even in my own organisation at girls not brides, we are saying, we need to actually engineer this movement we have created and say, what are the solutions we need to put on the table to end child marriage. And that gives me hope. So in the midst of the crisis, and all that, I’m seeing the human spirit, I’m seeing the resilience of human beings. And I’m seeing the enormous innovativeness of people, women and girls, even girls themselves, stepping up and being champions for themselves and saying, This is what we want. I don’t think I would have been able to champion myself when I was at age but I’m being so impressed by girls coming to say, this is what we want. This is how we wanted this where we want it. I see okay, let’s do this. So, I think for me that that really gives me hope that people are not waiting to be given. They are taking and they need to keep Jakey

Daze Aghaji  30:00  

that’s amazing. I’m like in such awe of you.

Climate Confessions

Ben Hurst  30:04  

And now it’s time for our climate confessions. Let’s fess up to the bad habits, we just can’t kick. I’m going to share one with you first. And my one is that winter is here, I’ve been trying really, really hard, not for the benefit of the climate, just for the benefit of my gas bill to not switch on. The gas 

Daze Aghaji  30:27  

The struggle is real 

Ben Hurst  30:32  

Crisis. So I’m trying to not switch on the heat and, and in my mind, I don’t know why my mind works in this way. But the solution that I figured out in the mornings is to go into the bathroom and switch the shower on before I get in the shower. So I just leave it on for about five minutes to warm up the bathroom. And then I spend an excessive amount of time in the shower in the mornings. I just watched my my YouTube who’s who in to watch YouTube videos and stuff in there. I mean, like, I feel like that’s what what do you do?

Daze Aghaji  31:06  

Who is watching YouTube videos in the shower? 

Ben Hurst  31:07  

Do you not watch YouTube? Sorry, no, there’s

Daze Aghaji  31:13  

like see who watches YouTube videos in the shower?

Ben Hurst  31:21  

Okay, all right. Oh, no. it is a man thing.

We’ve got a really work on this guys. well. Okay, says Do you have one? Climate confession?

Daze Aghaji  31:35  

So rubbing up, my favourite part of winter was basically getting a new winter jacket. And this is still something I do today. So when I say I’ve got so many different types of trench coats, and this year, I’m not gonna lie, I’m still gonna go to jacket. I’ve already eyed out my winter jacket in Garni it’s happening. Like,

Ben Hurst  31:57  

ya know what it is already? shout out fast fashion. Are you doing fast fashion are you doing? So the thing

Daze Aghaji  32:03  

is like, in my way of going, okay, days, we like to shop. That’s something that’s happening already, like, not something I’m willing to give up. I’m so sorry. That’s awful. But I was like, I was like, if I buy less things, and then my investment pieces, that’s what I’m going to be doing. Like for the ongoing future. I try not to do the fast fashion. But once in a while allegedly. No, I’m a sucker for Anthropology

Ben Hurst  32:32  

It chose us we didnt choose it. Okay, Dr, Would you like to share with us what your closet confession is?

Faith Mwangi-Powell  32:41  

You just want one?

I think we are all you have. Yeah, I could do better. I could switch off lights in my house a little bit, a little bit more. I tend to just switch on and forget. And I’m thinking and I also fly a little bit too much. But I also believe having a justification. For the kind of work I do, some of these conversations you cannot have in zoom, need to go sit down with the people eyeball to eyeball and say let’s do this. So I fly a little bit too much. And thank God we didn’t fly for a little bit because of COVID. But now it’s opened up so so I’m flying a little bit my practice I’m conscious, but how we can do better. But I think that’s an area. Perhaps if I can take the train to Nairobi, perhaps I’ll do

a few trains to Amsterdam, so I think I can do more.


Ben Hurst  34:01  

Yeah, in fairness, whilst flying might be unavoidable, you can zoom in the dark. Yeah. I mean, if you turn up the brightness on the screen, I know.

Nothing. Thank you so much for joining. Honestly, a really, really important really timely, really inspiring conversation. And I feel like you’ve left us with a lot of hope, in a situation that I wouldn’t have assumed could be very hopeful. So thank you so much for joining.

Faith Mwangi-Powell  34:35  

Thank you for having me.

Ben Hurst  34:40  

Thank you for joining us this week. We really hope you enjoyed this episode.

Maryam Pasha  34:44  

If you did, please hit the Follow button to make sure you get next week’s release.

Ben Hurst  34:48  

We are now officially crowdsourcing climate confessions. So please leave yours in the ratings and the review section. And we’ll shout out to you next time.

Maryam Pasha  34:56  

A huge thank you to our headline partner Citi who was the Portland’s for the past six years to bring world changing ideas to the TEDx London stage, and the champion climate curious since day one,

Ben Hurst  35:08  

and shout out to our fabulous team behind the

Maryam Pasha  35:12  

pod. This episode was produced by Josie Coulter comes written by Tess Lowry work designed by Rebecca Mingus. Curation by Marian Pasha mixing engineers by Ben Beheshti. newzik also by Ben Beheshti presented by Ben Hurst and Marian Pasha.

Ben Hurst  35:29  

Remember, stay curious

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