Transcript, show notes and timestamps of Climate Curious podcast episode with Dominique Palmer discussing how to find your climate joy.

Season 4, Episode 5


0.00-8.42  Dominique’s origin story and how she got into climate 

8.42-15.29  What is the Stop Cambo campaign? Experiences at TED Countdown 2021 confronting Shell’s CEO Ben Van Beurden live on stage

15.29-17.49  What it feels like to win. Where next? 

17.49-18.15 – Ad break 

18.15-20.21 – Being solutions focussed instead of problems focused 

20.21-24.24 – Being a person of colour in the climate movement 

24.24-29.13 – Combining arts and climate to focus joy, the most sustainable act of all – how Dominique is taking big pink buses to festivals around the UK, ‘Climate Live’

29.13-31.36 – Collective action and community as an alternative power structure – how focussing on joy an imagination transcends borders 

31.36-34.06 – Climate Confessions

34.06-34.59 – Outro 


  • Stop Cambo – The Stop Cambo campaign is a group of organisations and grassroots activists working together to stop the government approving new oilfields. They won the #StopCambo campaign, successfully preventing Shell opening a new oil field off the west of Shetland in Scotland, in the North Atlantic Ocean, which holds around 800 million barrels of crude oil. The campaign has now expanded to stop all new oil fields in the UK, right now (October 2022) namely Shell’s Jackdaw and Equinor’s Rosebank. 
  • Kumi Naidoo Climate Curious – Kumi Naidoo on the Climate Curious podcast – How culture can help us save the climate war part 1 and part 2
  • Lauren McDonalds confronts Shell CEO live on stage – YouTube video of Lauren McDonald calling out the Shell CEO on stage at TED Countdown during the ‘Decarbonizing Fossil Fuels’ panel. 
  • Climate Live – Enlarging the global climate movement by engaging with a new audience through music. This was seen at UK festivals summer 2022 with its pink buses. 


Dominique Palmer  0:00  

I just for me personally trying to have more joy within my activism and focus on more joy and things that spark that for me, because it is sustainable. Joy is sustainable. And we can’t go on without it because it can be draining work.

Ben Hurst  0:25  

This is climate curious, the podcast for people who are bored, scared or confused by climate change.

Maryam Pasha  0:32  

I’m Maryam Pasha, the director and curator at TEDxLondon and the co-host of this podcast, alongside the amazing Ben.

Ben Hurst  0:38  

Hi, I’m Ben Hurst, activist and advocate exploring what positive masculinities can look like, and self confessed climate Normie.

Maryam Pasha  0:50  

So for those of you who don’t live in London, or in the UK, you might not be aware, but we’re facing, I think, the first time in decades, maybe a summer of a lot of strike action. So we’ve just come in London, we’ve just come through the strike action on public transport and across England on the railways, we’re looking at strike action in the airport, I think even like doctors are thinking about striking, which I think is quite unique. And so it’s about the idea of collective collective action. So I don’t know, Ben, is this something that you is this, like your bread and butter?

Ben Hurst  1:28  

No, it’s not my bread and butter, but honest, like honest truth. The other day, I did think probably for the first time in my life, why don’t we all just strike, like in the face of like of cost of massive cost of living crisis? I was like, oh, yeah, that does actually make sense. I think it’s the first time I’ve understood, like why people do it, obviously, because it’s personally affecting me now. I guess that there’s a lot more power involved when everybody’s actually united in fighting for whatever cause it is that they’re trying to try and win or trying to achieve. Podcast hunger, I see.

Maryam Pasha  2:00  

So that is probably a very good intro to our wonderful guest. This week, we’re joined by Dominique Palmer, who is a climate activist, youth activist, social justice, climate justice activist. I read in your bio, also, aspiring actors, model hosts speaker, the the list goes on, I was reading through all the things you’ve spoken at. And I have to admit, I ran out of time away. But we’re so excited to have you here. And I’m actually really excited to talk about this because I I kind of grew up really believing in unions, and the power of collective action and seeing it and then just hearing about what like, the Thatcher era was like for my parents and, and and then feeling like there’s some moments there of real solidarity, but then it kind of all getting muddled. People just getting a bit upset that they can’t go to work on time. And so I’m excited to talk about the idea of collective action in terms of the climate. But before we get into all of that, can you can you tell us a bit more about you for for our listeners?

Dominique Palmer  3:07  

Yeah, thank you for having me on here. 

Ben Hurst  3:09  

You’re so welcome. 

Dominique Palmer  3:12  

So I’m a youth climate justice activist, speaker, writer, and student in the UK, I wear a lot of hats. So I do a lot of things at various times. I’m really an organiser invited speech International, which is a global youth movement for climate justice, a coordinating climate Live, which is about uniting music and climate together to engage, educate and empower people for climate action. And I’m a member of an organisation called Bad activists collective, which is trying to dismantle the idea of perfectionism within the climate movement.

Maryam Pasha  3:42  

I want to ask you, as someone who was so immersed in the climate movement, how, how you got to this point, because I think that’s really interesting to me. And then I want to ask you about collective action. But first, I want to know, kind of what’s been your journey. Those are those are some pretty awesome organisations that you’re involved in. How did you how did you get here,

Ben Hurst  3:59  

give us your superhero origin story.

Dominique Palmer  4:03  

Here’s my origin story. I really never imagined myself being climate activists at all. But I was a bit interested in like sustainability and things when I was younger, I went vegan, and tried to do like different, like individual actions I could do. And it’s not really until 2019 that I really tapped into the climate movement. And that was because was living at the time in South London. In Lewisham. I was seeing these like posters around my area about how air pollution was really affecting our community, where we were living, and I went to the local like Jamaican restaurant one day, and I was talking to this lady, just, you know, it’s about general things. And she was talking about how her child was also suffering from asthma and how air pollution was making it worse. And this is something that my younger brother had had previously asthma and was facing that. And I kind of started to connect the dots about how the climate and ecological emergency was it right there. And I could see it in my community, and it was affecting people today. And that’s around when more climate actions around the world started happening and get assigned a strike outside parliament. And I saw, okay, people are doing stuff about this. So that’s something that I can do. Because the first year, I was incredibly overwhelmed and thinking, What can I possibly do about this massive, massive thing that’s happening. And I just started learning more. And then I saw climate strike happening in May, and I went to it, and then I never looked back. Because the energy was incredible. And I thought, okay, there’s real power here, there’s real energy here, we can actually do something about this, and then started pushing intersectionality and the climate movement. So climate strikes in the same year, I found myself at the UN Climate Change Conference, it was just wild. That’s, that’s my origin story.

Maryam Pasha  5:49  

So you may not know this about me. But my first memory of life is being able to protest really, I just remember being very upset, because they wouldn’t let me hold the really big sign, I was angry. So obviously, they’re not gonna let me decide if I really wanted to, and I’ve ever been really upset. But I listen to you now, I’m kind of reminded of this idea, listen to you makes me think about how something that’s so valuable to feel part of something, it’s hard to get out and be with other people. Like, I think sometimes these big big issues can feel so overwhelming, because they feel isolating. And actually, the power, it is a double edged sword, because it can process can be very overwhelming, it can be feel like it’s not working, even in the moment, it can be really upsetting in the protests I’ve been part of but there’s also this power of being with others. And you find that that sense of community is important to you, do you think that helped kind of taking you from like, Oh, this is something maybe I care about to actually, I mean, doing all this awesome stuff, and dedicating so much time to it.

Dominique Palmer  6:59  

100% I would go as far as a community is really what’s kept me going, and just guided me through this movement, I think without it and without that space to go to. And without those people that you’re standing alongside and learning together. And, you know, they that’s really becomes another family to you in a way as well. And we’re really has for me, like the people I’ve met have become another family to me. And that’s really what’s kept me going because the issue can feel so big and so overwhelming. And you’re just going going going and try to apply pressure to this and this campaign, and then this, and it really just allows you to take a moment and step back and have those connections with other people.

Maryam Pasha  7:41  

Yeah, I completely agree. I was

Ben Hurst  7:43  

just gonna say maybe a counterintuitive point. But like, like the conversation around community I always find so interesting, because I feel like I’ve hit this point in my life where I’m like, so tired of people, do you know what i mean?, like, I feel like this overwhelming sense of like, actually, I’d rather just do this by myself. And obviously like that comes with the tension of like, you actually can’t do anything by yourself, like individual action, I think is so difficult and also so overwhelming that you really do need community in terms of the work that you’re doing at the moment. What is it like I think that this conversation can can become like so broad and so huge, and there’s so many issues. And I know like I said before when we met you the first time you were organising some or part of a group that was organising some direct action, I think it was around stop cambo. And obviously that is like a has been a massive success at this point. How does that how does that process feel for you?

Maryam Pasha  8:42  

Let’s tell people what Stop Cambo is. Tell us a primer what is Stop Combo. Look at me

Ben Hurst  8:48  

talking about things. Come so.

Dominique Palmer  8:52  

Great intro stop Cambo is a campaign organisation focusing on stopping all new fossil fuel projects, specifically oil and gas projects in the UK. So the hashtag stop cambo for the Cambo oilfield. And that time I met you at countdown, that was a protest outside because the CEO shell was there. And there was we held a protest outside about the new cambo oil and gas field. And this was after my friend and fellow activists Lauren McDonald, like call that CEO shell on stage. And then we had a walkout in the building and then walked outside and had a protest. And now the cambo oilfield has been paused. And there’s been some camera involved. There’s been a 350 as well involved and advent of the earth and it’s just been so incredible to get to a point where it’s like, okay, there has been an impact. So we want to go the full way and have it stopped, but it’s also like we’re actually making an impact and that power really is there and our voices have been heard. So that was an incredible day it was so Such a happy day. I remember just like phoning people often be like, yeah, like, it’s actually pools like, we’re actually getting somewhere we’re doing it. That was amazing. 

Maryam Pasha  10:06  

I mean, it’s so true. Because sometimes when you’re a campaign or an activist, your whole life is spent trying to stop bad things happening, not make good things happen. So you don’t see it often, right? Because if you’re just like, you don’t see the things you’re stopping because they don’t happen. So you stop them. And it can be hard to like, feel like you’ve won, or even made any incremental change. I think that’s pretty awesome. That date count on, I think the thing that really struck me, and I don’t know how it felt for you, but it reminded me that this is not actually easy. I remember. And, you know, for anyone listening who’s interested, Ted posted the whole session online, so you can go watch the, for the whole hour from the beginning of this, let’s call it panel, two, through what happens, you know, with a walkout and then also what happens after, the thing that really struck me was a reminder that this is not easy. I felt this this real for the first time in a while I felt this real overwhelming. Sense of I don’t know, I came in I don’t even I can’t even put a word to remember when you and I seem together. And I almost felt frozen in space in place. 

Ben Hurst  11:17  


Maryam Pasha  11:19  

And I think that maybe people, people feel like, I don’t know, maybe maybe I just had forgotten because people make it seem so easy. But actually, it’s an It is lovely to find community and be at it. But there’s another side to it. Right? Which is quite, it can be difficult at times.

Ben Hurst  11:35  

Yeah. It’s a really interesting experience. How did you find it? How did how did you find the regular? Everyday

Dominique Palmer  11:43  

I think that’s a great like point that you guys have made because in literally the night before that happens. We were up to about 2am in this like random room and that headcount down hotel, and there was so much anxiety around it. So people like okay, is this going to work isn’t going to work out? And should we do it like this. So we’re going to get tackled to the ground like, and obviously for you know, Lauren, as well as I was incredibly like big moment. And actually right before we did the walkout, and we were going outside, I was like so anxious about what would happen, that I was like shaking even going to like hold the banner. And I think those kinds of moments aren’t really spoken about as much that those moments can be difficult. And I think it also places activists on this pedestal of like, they’re these, like beings who can just you know, do it or like bulletproof like nothing brings them down like this is this is just how it goes. And so it prevents a lot of people getting in because they’re like, Okay, like, that’s, you need to be perfect. You need to be like this. Need to? Yeah, you just have to be kind of unstoppable. When that’s really not the case. There were so many different emotions that I experienced that day. Yeah,

Ben Hurst  12:50  

because like as a society, and a culture that we do market it was especially like our young activists, as like Fearless warriors of change. I sometimes feel like we just pin all of our homes under like these individuals and kind of like, just do it for us. And then we can all celebrate when we win. And yeah, you’re right. Like, we don’t talk about that process of like, going through the moment enough? Because I imagine it is petrifying. I imagine I’m not sure. But

Maryam Pasha  13:20  

I think this is the thing about being in the, in the face of collective action. I think it was like a tidal wave hit that room. I don’t think anything else could have done that. Well.

Dominique Palmer  13:30  

Yeah, he’s really, yeah, really stick like strikes with you. That’s not the right word. But it really like resonates. I think it’s quite powerful. How much like one action can kind of create that ripple effect, like you said, and there were a lot of people spoke to us after who were like, they also felt kind of like frozen. They couldn’t walk out for this reason, or they weren’t sure what to do, or they did in the end. But I also think just it just reflects on a larger scale of just how much other people can be impacted by different actions. And I think that’s a really powerful thing. 

Maryam Pasha  14:05  

I think it inspired us on this point, all of us to be because it started a series of conversations, I think around the role of oil companies and executives in the conversation. And I think I don’t know how you remember it. For me, my background is human rights. So like, if we’re talking about human rights, I know I got it. I know that I know the playing field. For example, you don’t expect to invite Saudi Arabia to a Human Rights Conference and expect to see anything meaningful taking the action, of course, but I was feeling like this sense of Oh, but maybe we do need to avoid giving them a platform. I don’t know if you don’t think the sense of like, am I being naive or whatever and what that moment crystallised for me was like, No, we’re not being naive actually, like platforming these these kinds of individuals from these companies, who, who you know then from all the other conversations that came after that moment, you know, don’t tell the truth aren’t being held accountable, it is just a PR piece. It became very crystal for us as a podcast as to where we stand on this. So I think, like you said, you never know where the impact that action is gonna have on the people in the room or beyond.

Dominique Palmer  15:26  

It’s really great to hear that. 

Ben Hurst  15:29  

Well, it was really great that you did it. I’m wondering, like, from your perspective, what does it feel like to get to the end of something and be like, Oh, we, we were successful there? Like, is it like a? Because I don’t know, I can only imagine what the feeling is, like part of me thinks it must feel like, oh, yeah, like elation. And then part of me also feels that it must be a weird, like, moment of shifting in terms of like purpose and like, you spent so much time focusing on one thing, and now you don’t have to focus on that thing anymore. Maybe you need to shift your focus elsewhere. I’m not sure.

Dominique Palmer  16:00  

Yeah, no, that’s a great point. Because it really, there really is like that. The two sides. So I kind of feel like when we get to a point of like success, or like a moment where we finally achieved what we wanted to I’ll give the example in the moment. It’s kind of like, okay, we’ve gotten here. That’s amazing. But then also, is that enough? Have we achieved everything we wanted to? And why do we really go from here? So I remember in 2019, there was the climate strikes in September. And in the UK, for example, we got over 350,000 people in the street. So it’s like, okay, this is incredible. And then Parliament announced a climate emergency. It’s like, okay, like we are, we’re really getting somewhere right now. But I think for me, it’s been really important to kind of put it in its context and see the impact it impact it’s had there rather than looking at the big, like the massive scale of climate action in like the global, the global world, essentially. And also like the little wins, like in climate live where we had concerts in 20 countries and we brought people together for the climate, which was incredible and like okay, that’s also when engaging people and getting new people involved is something that should be celebrated more as a win.

Ben Hurst  17:14  

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Maryam Pasha  17:21  

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Ben Hurst  17:32  

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Maryam Pasha  17:40  

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Ben Hurst  17:48  

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Maryam Pasha  17:59  

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Ben Hurst  18:08  

Nice ones. Citi,

Maryam Pasha  18:09  

thank you for making this podcast possible.

Ben Hurst  18:11  

Now, back to the show.

Maryam Pasha  18:15  

Yeah, I mean, when I think about the Stop Cambo, I wonder if it feels like, you need to have that first win, and not and value it. But then it kind of does just open up the like, okay, like now now, let’s dream bigger. Let’s do more. I wonder if you feel like going back to this idea of collective action, or an elk being in the in community? Do you think it helps you see, or be close to or, What’s I don’t know, the word I’m looking for is, but be more solution focused, rather than being more problem focused. Being in these movements.

Dominique Palmer  18:50  

I think it can really depend where you’re at in the movement and what journey you’re on. Because for me until cop 26, I was mainly I think, problem focused stopping things. And you know, on that kind of, like fast pace, we need to stop this, we need to stop this. And not looking too much at like the solutions like my vision of the future either. And not taking the winds as they came. I think I didn’t do that as much when I definitely first started out, as everything’s quite like new and fast paced, and it’s all like urgent, and it’s now and there’s this crisis, and it’s like, we have to do this and there’s this and you know, everything, I think after cut 26 After we had like a lot of actions there. 

Ben Hurst  19:33  

Yeah, like how’d you find hope? Yeah. Trouble. Yeah.

Maryam Pasha  19:38  

I also feel I actually, I have said, I’ve also feel like one of the reasons why we’ve, we’re seeing more of a shift to solutions and imagining the future and seeing what’s possible is because, in a way, we’ve done the work to convince people this is an emergency. Like, if that makes sense. Like we I guess for a while everyone thought that if we just convince people this is an urgencies are to change. But now we’ve realised that people can realise something is wrong. There’s a problem. And it’s emergency and still not doing anything, because there are other things standing in their way. And so I feel like the whole movement has started to evolve. So that now we have to think about solutions. Because actually, until we tell people like, the better world that we want to create, they’re not motivated towards anything. They’re just like, Yeah, okay, everything’s on fire. I still, I still have to pay like 800 pounds electricity bills, so yeah,

Ben Hurst  20:31  

exactly. So I will just be on fire. 

Dominique Palmer  20:34  

Yeah, yeah, exactly. That’s why Stop Cambo, for example, is really been trading this narrative and really pushing forward that actually, you know, acting on climate, something that’s about the well being of us as well, and the planet and that these fossil fuel CEOs and companies like lining their pockets and government action to prioritise their profits over us is actually something that is impacting people every single day when they have to, you know, pay these rising electricity bills, and the cost of living crisis, and all of these different things are intertwined. We have to really push that intersection aspect of it, and push the fact that there’s so many different barriers, people getting involved. And just saying that there’s a crisis isn’t going to get people on, get more people on the streets alone. 

Maryam Pasha  21:20  

Now,I have a question, actually, because all of us are people of colour. And when you’ve spoken about this before, and how people in your community that your friends have said to you why doing climate stuff? 

Ben Hurst  21:30  


Maryam Pasha  21:31  

Do you think that there’s work? What work? Well, I am curious for both of you what you feel like, you know, what work needs to be done? I’m I really have no community. I’m a bit of a outlier, a nomad. But I’m just curious to know whether there’s also some work where it feels like certain communities have just been excluded. And so they feel like this isn’t their thing anymore. There are more pressing urgent matters.

Ben Hurst  21:54  

Yeah. Because that was that was, to me, what stood out about your superhero origin story was the idea of like, just in the local area where you lived, there was something happening already. And also that that was a conversation that you managed to have in a Jamaican food shop, because I have never succeeded in having a conversation with any Jamaican food shop worker, ever in my life. So it’s interesting idea of like, how do we bring those conversations to our own people? And that that’s like, makes a big separation between us and them kind of mentality, which is not what I mean, but like I’m talking about?

Dominique Palmer  22:33  

No, yeah, yeah, it’s like, you have that one issue, like air pollution is something that a lot of black communities, black and brown community, especially across the UK have really gotten engaged in something like you can see that Yeah, and it’s there, and is disproportionately impacting black Caribbean and African communities, specifically in the UK. And I also think, I’m thinking about why I wasn’t as engaged when I was younger. And it’s like, well, first of all, I didn’t see myself reflected in the environmentalism space, I saw being like environmentalist, and just being in nature, something that seemed very, like white focused, and I didn’t think that was really something for me. And also, those access to those kinds of green and nature spaces, is something that I didn’t really have when I was younger. And I think that’s also a big barrier, but also trying to change how we’re approaching the climate conversation and how you know, this, because for example, one of the really big ideas about getting into climate activism is like go on the streets and go in the road and get arrested. And that’s when it’s really pushed by groups, which thinks rebellion. And you know, it’s like a person of colour, it’s like yeah, so yeah, changing that and be like, actually, there’s so many roles and different skills and so much different ways that people can get involved in activism and different groups out there, that that’s not something we need to focus on. And really, again, bringing the intersectional aspect into it. So connecting race and connecting class into it, I think will really help a lot of people.

Ben Hurst  24:08  

Yeah, but if you’re listening to this funder youth organisation, that’s a direct action that none of us we I don’t think we’ve ever spoken about, right is like actually finding the motivation and but what’s the name of your organisation that people can find?

Dominique Palmer  24:24  

Climate live

Ben Hurst  24:24  

And I, one of the things I love about this narrative, and this conversation with you is the idea of like, change and evolution over time, and how activism for you started in one place, and there’s branched out to like multiple different places. I’m wondering like, what the, as far as you know, obviously we can’t see into the future but what is the future of your activism, activism look like or feel like for you, like, Are there spaces that you see yourself? Changing your approach or like communities that you want to reach that require a different approach to the One that you’ve used in the past,

Dominique Palmer  25:01  

personally, for me, I had so much burnout for strikes and actions and policy push, like change. And I was like, I need to also engage in something that involves creativity, and really sparks my joy in something that I love. So for me, what I really want to focus on now is mainly two things, combining the arts, again, with climate, that more creative side. So with climate live, but also trying to reach into communities, like there’s so much to do that that can bring people together in a way that’s outside the traditional boxes of what is seen as like climate activism, I really want to focus on actually getting local communities, especially ones like mine, especially people of colour, who will be disposed impacted by the climate crisis and should be represented and highlighted. And yeah, just for me personally, trying to have more joy within my activism and focus on more joy and things that spark that for me, because it is sustainable. Joy is sustainable. And we can’t go on without it. Because it can be draining work. It’s something hard that we’re fighting for. And so it’s just, it’s crucial.

Ben Hurst  26:11  

So interesting to hear. Young people will say, like, say stuff like that about joy, I feel like that’s something that you hear from black people in their, like 70s and 80s, who have like done a lifetime of like activism, and they’re like, Oh, I realised one day that you can’t sustain it unless you are sustaining yourself. And I love that idea of like, how do we find a way of doing this that like, gives us life rather than, like, drains us of everything we have. And I think art is a great way of doing that. Because anybody can make art. So that’s the one thing in the world that’s like, not exclusive, where like anybody can like even if you can’t play a guitar, you can pick up a guitar and like strung around until you find something or like pick up a pen or pencil or paintbrush or whatever, make something which is a nice, yeah, a nice way of viewing it.

Maryam Pasha  27:01  

I was gonna say like, it reminds me of the conversation. We had a few seasons back with Kumi Naidoo was talking all about how is actually arts and culture is going to be the way to take climate to everyone. And then it’s only it’s actually arts and culture that change. Like societies. If you think about all the big shifts, they’ve very much been either led by or reflected in that. And I’m just curious to know, I want I want you to tell us about like one or two really cool things you’ve been doing in that space recently.

Dominique Palmer  27:34  

Yeah, definitely in the arts, I just had to get involved with the arts has so much power. So so much influence. And the climate crisis is also just a crisis of connection as well, of connecting to nature connecting to our communities, and what a better way to, like unite people, then something that connects us also deeply, which is the arts, and everyone consumes it in one way or another. And so two very cool things we’re involved in is climate Live, which is a youth led organisation, uniting music and climate. And last year, we held events, concerts in 20 countries, which was incredible. Wireless festival, we took a big pink solar powered bus. And

Maryam Pasha  28:21  

I mean, if you have one, yeah,

Ben Hurst  28:24  

you better get one. 

Dominique Palmer  28:25  

If we have one, you know, you got to use it. So you had artists on there and I spoke on there were different activist males. There’s one moment where the really cool artist at the end, Louie culture. So many people came in, and we’re just dancing and we had a big climate live bus. And I was like, This is so cool. This is something cool that we’re doing. That was amazing. And then also lately speaking at the Barbican, about how to unite the arts and climate. And I was like these institutions here in London have so much cultural influence so much power, and there has to be so much more focus on pushing for protecting our planet and not just creating new stories, but also highlighting the stories that are already out there. And I really think it could touch more people and move more hearts.

Maryam Pasha  29:13  

Your I love what really struck me first of all I love you can’t you can’t see this listeners at home. He has an incredible smile. Just So conversely when you talk about this, but is the idea that especially with the concerts around the world is that it’s also not just coming from the west, it’s like coming from everywhere. It’s not like it’s like oh, we will create the art here. You know, people around the world but it’s it’s more and I think that’s kind of coming all the way back around. I think that’s kind of what for me, when you talk about community when you talk about collective action is this idea that we can start to connect in a way that’s different than the power relations that we have currently existing and replace them. I mean, when I think about this kind of joy and imagination about the future for me, it’s about changing the power systems. Yeah.

Dominique Palmer  30:10  

Yeah, exactly. I think, yeah, that’s something that we really were focused on doing. And some that needs to be more of it’s like not being like, okay, here is these ideas, here’s our narrative, or what we’re going to do here in the West, and you guys don’t need to do the same thing. Or we’re going to bring in Yeah, copy and paste or bring in like a couple of people. Okay, here are some activists from Africa will just put them on stage, speak for a bit

Maryam Pasha  30:39  

on the stage and call it the African stage. And, like you said, stage like, is when you separate people, it’s like, when you have things and it’s just like, oh, this is the women’s part? Well, it’s like, no, this is everyone’s part.

Dominique Palmer  30:55  

Like, exactly. It’s like that tokenism instead of actually everyone being included, I think there’s something that needs to be platformed a lot more as the diversity of people actually being involved in the creating and shaping of these entire events and what’s going on. And just going over fundamental principles that no one is voiceless, everyone says we need to give a voice to the voiceless, and like people are not voiceless. They’re just not being listened to.

Maryam Pasha  31:21  

I actually think I don’t want to say anything more. After that. I think that is a perfect place for us to transition this conversation to our last segment, which relates to something you said earlier about shattering the bubble of perfection.


Ben Hurst  31:36  

And now it’s time for our climate confessions. Let’s fess up to the bad habits. We just can’t kick.

Dominique Palmer  31:46  

One thing. I mean, recently, I’ve been really into frappuccinos. Actually, quite addictive, and I don’t always remember my reusable like cold drink cups. So a lot of Fraps not exactly an ethical company. Can we talk about then our second points card?

Maryam Pasha  32:08  

Love iced coffee? As you will see, yeah. This one right here. But it drives me crazy that when I go somewhere to get nice coffee, I just have all of this plastic. Yeah, it’s not even they like, I guess this is a very small problem. But I just want to say that I’ve been thinking about this all summer, and thinking about how I’m never going away. About like, can we this is a call out to all you big and small coffee companies. You had your paper cups with the recyclable paper lids for the hot coffee and you helped us out because during the pandemic, we couldn’t bring our own reusable coffee cups. And to be honest, I don’t like those coffee cups because I’m gonna spill it all everywhere in my bag. Yeah, can you find a solution, please? Because because the pick let me tell you a paper straw in a plastic cup. When the plastic teeth cut into the straw. It was knows what I’m talking about. Yeah, everyone knows rule is like trying to get that drink out. And it’s, it’s not working. So basically, this is a call out for a redesign of something that needs to be one that needs to happen

Dominique Palmer  33:20  

redesign maybe collapsible coffee carts or something

Maryam Pasha  33:23  

unexpected but lively kind of a confession. Donnie case will say thank you so much for joining us. Pleasure today, it was $1 I thought we got a coffee, right? Get this off my chest, but I really happy. But I also think that being able to see kind of the journey that you’ve been on, and this coming to this conclusion of like finding more joy and connecting to that. And that being a way of like widening out being more inclusive, I think is a really hopeful message for people who might want to get involved or have just started or trying to find their space. Is that actually thinking about what gives you joy? And how do you bring that to, to this fight or to this movement, I think is really a great message. 

Ben Hurst  34:06  

So important.


Thank you for joining us this week. We really hope you enjoyed this episode.

Maryam Pasha  34:14  

If you did, please hit the Follow button to make sure you get next week’s release.

Ben Hurst  34:18  

We are now officially crowdsourcing climate confessions. So please leave yours in the ratings in the review section. And we’ll shut off you next.

Maryam Pasha  34:26  

A huge thank you to our headline partner city, who has supported us for the past six years to bring world changing ideas to the TEDx London stage, and the champion climate curious since day one.

Ben Hurst  34:38  

Shout out to our fabulous team behind the pod.

Maryam Pasha  34:42  

This episode was produced by Josie Colter comms written by Tess Lowery artwork designed by Rebecca Menzies. Curation by Maryam Pasha mixing engineers by Ben Beheshti. Music also by Ben Beheshty presented by Ben Hurst and Maryam Pasha.

Ben Hurst  34:59  

Remember, Stay curious


Josie Colter

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