Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | RSS | Android
Who gets labelled a criminal in the fight for climate justice – and why? In this episode of Climate Curious, filmmakers Becky Burchell and Sophie Austin discuss the making of their latest documentary, Climate Criminals?, a documentary that retells the stories of frontline climate activists, in their own words. From Just Stop Oil’s Stonehenge protest to the far-reaching consequences of the UK’s 2023 Public Order Act, the conversation moves beyond headlines and handcuffs to reveal the real people behind the protests. Tune in to dive into the tensions surrounding civil disobedience and ask the vital question: who really deserves the label of ‘criminal’? Recorded live at Oxford University’s Right Here Right Now Global Climate Action Summit in conversation with executive producer, Josie Colter.
Watch the ‘Climate Criminals?’ documentary.
Continue the Climate Curious conversation on socials:
Instagram
TikTok
YouTube
LinkedIn
Website
Created by TEDxLondon
Executive produced by Josie Colter
Produced by Ben Beheshty
Curated by Deesha Chandra
Hosted by Maryam Pasha and Ben Hurst
Communications by Tara Cooper and Issey Gladston
00:00 Introduction
01:14 Introducing Becky Burchell and Sophie Austin
01:48 The story behind ‘Climate Criminals?’
04:54 Creating the documentary
06:55 The activists’ personal stories
19:37 Challenges and legal battles
26:44 Final thoughts
[00:00:00] Introduction
[00:00:00] Becky Burchell: The sentences that are coming up now are the longest sentences in British history for any nonviolent action, which is completely shocking, especially under a labor government with a Prime Minister that’s a human rights lawyer.
[00:00:13] Ben Hurst: This is [00:00:15] Climate Curious, the podcast for people who are bored, scared, or confused by climate change.
[00:00:20] Maryam Pasha: I’m Marion Pasha, the director and curator at Telex London, and the co-host of this podcast. Alongside the amazing Ben.
[00:00:26] Ben Hurst: Hi, I’m Ben Hurst, activist and [00:00:30] advocate exploring what positive masculinities can look like and self-confessed climate, nor me. A quick one here for those keen ears amongst you, there is a new voice.
[00:00:41] Ben Hurst: Neither Maryam nor myself or available to speak to our guest, Becky [00:00:45] Burchell and Sophie Austin, but we just couldn’t let the opportunity pass us by. Fortunately, for us, the top for us stepped up. To the play. So for today’s interview, you’ll have the pleasure of our executive producer Josie [00:01:00] Colter, conducting the interview with Becky and Sophie recorded live at Oxford’s right here, right now, global Climate Summit 2025.
[00:01:09] Ben Hurst: Stay curious.
[00:01:13] Josie Colter: Hi everyone.
[00:01:14] Introducing Becky Burchell and Sophie Austin
[00:01:14] Josie Colter: We are here back at Climate Curious at the Oxford Global Climate Summit Week, hosted by right here, right now, and I’m really excited that we’ve got two fantastic, uh, filmmakers with us today. So we’ve got Becky Burchell is who is the founder of Change Festival and a freelance arts producer and curator.
[00:01:31] Josie Colter: And we’ve also got Sophie Austin, who is a creative director at Change Festival and a former artistic director of Teatro Vivo, a site specific theater company. Um, together, change Festival is an environmental arts organizati on that aims to inspire [00:01:45] cultural shifts through storytelling and gatherings. And yeah.
[00:01:48] The story behind ‘Climate Criminals?’
[00:01:48] Josie Colter: The reason we’ve invited them here today is to talk about their really interesting film that’s just come out, which is called Climate Criminals Question Mark, um, of which they are the director, editor, and producer of this film. [00:02:00] And yeah, it’s a short documentary about frontline climate activists reclaiming their actions in their own words, which, yeah, we’re really excited to get into.
[00:02:07] Josie Colter: So, hello and welcome.
[00:02:09] Sophie Austin: Hi. Thanks
[00:02:09] Josie Colter: for having us,
[00:02:10] Sophie Austin: Josie.
[00:02:11] Josie Colter: You are welcome. Let’s start at the beginning. Could you tell us [00:02:15] what climate criminals is and what made you want to tell this story? So
[00:02:19] Sophie Austin: climate criminals. Question mark is a film that came out of, uh, a time when we, so Becky and [00:02:30] I were sat round a table with Jonathan Por, who is a leading environmentalist.
[00:02:34] Sophie Austin: Um, and we have worked with him over a number of years and he has been sort of my personal touchstone about the state of the world and the state of hope for the future. Uh, Jonathan [00:02:45] has been a, an activist. All his life. Um, and he sat around our kitchen table and was very gloomy and felt that the only thing that was going to [00:03:00] save us now was direct action.
[00:03:02] Sophie Austin: Taking direct action out onto the streets. And being, um, standing up for what we, what we all want and need. Um, and he had been talking to a number of, um, young activists from, [00:03:15] um, various organizations like Just Stop Oil and Youth Demand, um, and. He felt that they were not being heard and their voices weren’t being, uh, expressed clearly enough in the media.
[00:03:26] Sophie Austin: And that if there was anything that we could do [00:03:30] together as a team, it would be about amplifying their voices and their stories. And he was gonna write a book, which he is writing, and will be out in July, I think. Um, and, uh. We suggested, we do a [00:03:45] residency where we bring them together as many of them as we can, uh, to hear their stories, to understand why they do what they do, and think about then how different ways to amplify it.
[00:03:55] Sophie Austin: We, at that point, we didn’t really know whether that would be a film or a play or many [00:04:00] different ideas, but we wanted to, in the first instance, just see who they were. I can absolutely hold my hands up and say that I’m someone that, you know, struggled with some of the actions that I saw. Um, I think [00:04:15] the stone hen one had recently happened, perhaps, um,
[00:04:18] Josie Colter: oh, is that where they were sprayed orange paint?
[00:04:20] Josie Colter: Yeah, there was stone paint on Stone
[00:04:22] Sophie Austin: Hen and there were a couple of things that I was a bit unsure about, but. I also am aware that from my social media feed and [00:04:30] from the media feeds that I list read and look at, I’m being told a particular story. And I think one of the most important things that I’m interested in as a storyteller is finding the truth and not believing everything I read.
[00:04:43] Sophie Austin: And when Jonathan comes [00:04:45] to me and tells me, these are the most wonderful. Generous, kind-hearted loving people, and they’re doing it because they feel there’s nothing else. I’m listening to that and I wanna understand more.
[00:04:54] Creating the documentary
[00:04:54] Sophie Austin: So we came up with this idea of doing a storytelling residential to invite them to come, have a bit of respite from their campaigning and their um, uh.
[00:05:04] Sophie Austin: Protesting and activism and just hang out with us in the countryside. Uh, over three days and through gentle prompts and invitation, we would invite [00:05:15] them to tell us a bit more about who they are and why they do what they do. And from that, uh, emerged the Climate Criminals film, uh, which was filmed over the three days.
[00:05:26] Sophie Austin: And, um, we basically said to them we would like to potentially [00:05:30] make a film, but we dunno what it is. So. We need you to trust us. But also this is a collaboration as far as I’m concerned. So if I edit something together and you don’t like it, if I put anything in you don’t like, then you absolutely have veto over that.
[00:05:43] Sophie Austin: And as a documentary [00:05:45] maker and as a filmmaker, that’s absolutely how I work. I would never put something out where the people that I’m collaborating with, Phil unhappy. Um, so that was really important that they had that from the off, that openness and then. We, um, yeah, put the footage together [00:06:00] and came up with this story and it was so clear to me that putting myself in the story as well, so my voice is some of the voiceover that you hear, um, was also really important because.
[00:06:10] Sophie Austin: This is a personal story. Mm. It’s not, all of everything that is happening is happened [00:06:15] to us personally. And I, as a documentary maker, feel that I cannot just stand behind the voices of those people that I’m presenting. I need to be there too. Mm. And, um, in doing that, I feel like I’m saying that, you know, [00:06:30] I’m an ally in, in everything that they’re doing.
[00:06:33] Sophie Austin: Um, and so, yeah, that’s
[00:06:34] Josie Colter: how the film has come about. You know the film is, it’s fully accessible. It’s all on YouTube. There’s a lovely trailer, which is like a minute, so everyone’s got time to watch that. But also the [00:06:45] film is 15 minutes, right? Mm-hmm. So it’s really accessible. It’s all on YouTube, so everyone should go watch it.
[00:06:49] Josie Colter: It’s called, yeah, climate Criminals. Question mark, what is the story? What? What do you think is the story is of these people? What’s their experience been? Yeah,
[00:06:55] The activists’ personal stories
[00:06:55] Becky Burchell: Sophie said, I think there’s been so much, rightly so negative, [00:07:00] so much negative press because you know, especially around people like just Poer, what they’re doing is to get.
[00:07:05] Becky Burchell: Press and to get attention. And a lot of the activists are very used to having hate and vitriol thrown at them. Um, but beyond that and beyond all the debates that they’ve [00:07:15] had on all of the talk talk shows, um, is their own motivation and their own drive. That’s, that’s allowed them to put themselves in some very difficult and very challenging situations.
[00:07:26] Becky Burchell: Um, some of the activists we met are incredibly young, um, [00:07:30] incredibly gentle and thoughtful and just they wouldn’t. Be the kind of people you’d imagine to be, um, you know, thrown out of the road by police or put themselves in some very, um, aggressive situations with people spitting in their face and shouting at them, um, [00:07:45] spending time in prison.
[00:07:46] Becky Burchell: They’re just not the people that have be, that they’ve been portrayed to be. Mm-hmm. Um, so what we found when we met the activists was that, first of all, there is an incredible sense of community amongst those who take action. There’s quite a lot of diversity [00:08:00] within their. Backgrounds much more so again than gets represented.
[00:08:04] Becky Burchell: Oh, interesting. Um, although a lot of them are either quite young or older and retired because that’s the two demographics that are able to put themselves in, um, you know, in the risk of being [00:08:15] arrested. Yeah. Um, they’ve sort of got less to lose than perhaps the middle demographic people with families and houses and jobs.
[00:08:20] Becky Burchell: Um, but having said that, a lot of them are putting a lot of their lives at risk and, um, and also relationships at risk. So this sense of community and shared purpose that [00:08:30] comes from. From the actions and from doing these incredibly brave and difficult things together, um, creates this, this community when people sometimes have never met before, but they know that they’re united over a common cause and a love for the planet, and a love for [00:08:45] humanity, and a love for nature.
[00:08:46] Becky Burchell: Um, and that creates these very, very deep bonds across, um, generations. So we had some beautiful stories about, particularly the, the two that, um, did the Stone Hen action who had never met. And Neve is in her early twenties and Rajan is in his [00:09:00] seventies. Rajan, um, is from an Indian background. He’s a Quaker.
[00:09:03] Becky Burchell: He lives in Birmingham. Neve is an Oxford University student in her twenties. They’ve got, you know, they’ve got wildly different life experiences and yet they met for the first time walking on the way to the stones and [00:09:15] had this incredible conversation about nature. They were noticing the Skylarks, they were noticing all the wild flowers as they were walking and having this incredible bond when they’re about to do something that would.
[00:09:24] Becky Burchell: Create global news, and not just global news, but actually really probably the most, [00:09:30] um, inflammatory action of all of the GE oil actions. Um, the Stonehenge one in particular is one that Sophie and I as artists and people in the cultural space have come up against. As one that gets, gets, you see that as like the big one?
[00:09:42] Becky Burchell: The big one. That’s so interesting. The one that annoys people the [00:09:45] most. Oh, wow. Oh wow. Yeah. And conversations we’ve had with fellow artists that they said, you know, I get what they’re doing, I support it. But Stonehenge was one step too far. Line crossed. Um, and yet when you hear Neve and Rajan talking about it in.
[00:09:59] Becky Burchell: Actually [00:10:00] quite a spiritual way. You know, when when, when Neve was sat under the stones, there was a kite circling above her and they both had this deep sense of, of ancestry, of lineage, of history, of, of being in the right place and doing the right thing. And as much as someone [00:10:15] might not agree with that and might be upset by it, like there, um, their sense of of place and their sense of duty and what they’re doing and responsibility for the much wider picture, not just this moment in time, but a much wider.
[00:10:29] Becky Burchell: [00:10:30] Perspective is so powerful that you can’t help but be moved by it even if you didn’t agree with what they did. Um, and you know, people get very upset about the paint on the stones, which was actually just cornflower and was Oh, really? Yeah. And was, and was, you know, experimented with to make sure that it [00:10:45] would come off.
[00:10:45] Becky Burchell: Like all of the actions are so carefully planned to create, um. Minimum damage. And that again, is part of the story that doesn’t come across in the media. Yeah. None of these stories, it’s all theater. It is. And that’s why we were very drawn to [00:11:00] it because it is, they say it’s theater, but it’s, it’s, um, it’s to create a story, which of course is gonna annoy people because that’s the point, because that’s how they get into the media.
[00:11:10] Becky Burchell: But when you un, when you look, be note beneath that it is exactly that. It’s [00:11:15] theater and it’s to create the biggest bang for the least amount of disruption. So that’s the balance they’re always trying to create. Well, it’s worked. Yeah,
[00:11:22] Sophie Austin: it’s been successful. And why do you think it hasn’t been told? Why do you think these stories about the fact that, you know, with the Van Gogh, there was [00:11:30] no damage with Stonehenge, there’s no damage.
[00:11:32] Sophie Austin: Those stories just do not get told. And there’s something. You know, deeply sinister in my mind that we are able to sort of just buy into this belief that these people will do that because we’ve been sold [00:11:45] this story of these terrible activists by the media. And actually, you know, when we walk into a room with these people, the, the most overwhelming feeling is of love.
[00:11:55] Sophie Austin: And that, you know, and I don’t say that from a particularly hippie [00:12:00] background, but there is just this community and sense of love for us and for the planet, and it’s, you know, for anybody, they are doing it for us. And it’s, it’s a story that really does need to be told loudly and as widely as [00:12:15] possible.
[00:12:15] Josie Colter: Yeah.
[00:12:15] Sophie Austin: And the point with the film being, you know, 15 minutes long is that as so many people can see it, it’s inaccessible.
[00:12:21] Maryam Pasha: That
[00:12:21] Sophie Austin: it’s supposed to be accessible, but it’s also an invitation to talk about it. And, you know, that’s what we’re doing here tonight in Oxford, is having a, an opportunity for the [00:12:30] activist to say more after the film as well.
[00:12:32] Sophie Austin: And then, you know, we are gonna hold the space open and if people wanna come and talk to us at the end, they can, because I think you’ve got, it’s, it’s not just one opinion. We want you to have an opinion about it. We want you to come and see the film and talk [00:12:45] about it and ask questions and wonder why you haven’t.
[00:12:48] Sophie Austin: Ever heard that the Van Gogh wasn’t damaged, that it was up two hours later, you know, that Stonehenge is still standing. Um, no lichen was damaged. You know, it’s, uh, [00:13:00] it’s an important question to ask, I think,
[00:13:04] Josie Colter: and something that really struck me about the film was how. Authentic and organic. It kind of came across and you could see that in the, the kind of relationships between the, the people that you featured.[00:13:15]
[00:13:15] Josie Colter: There were some lovely moments of like laughter between some of the activists saying, oh, they didn’t ring the police. Like we wanted them to ring the police. They needed to ring. And it’s just like such a lovely moment. You’ve captured that. Um. So, yeah, I wanted to ask you a bit of like the behind the scenes, how you came across like [00:13:30] creating this sort of project.
[00:13:31] Josie Colter: And I know you didn’t actually set out to create a film, right?
[00:13:35] Becky Burchell: Hmm. Yeah, so I think I’d say, um, so my background is in festivals. I used to be a producer of, of two big festivals and Sophie’s is in theater. So we’ve both [00:13:45] come from a very sort of arts background. Um, but more recently our work has, um, lent more into.
[00:13:52] Becky Burchell: Sort of holding space for conversations, holding space for people, um, to be more authentic and more heartfelt. So it’s [00:14:00] almost as if you are creating an opportunity and, and, and a creative emergence to happen rather than planning it all and then performing it. So I’m much less interested in a kind of.
[00:14:10] Becky Burchell: Performance on a stage and an audience are much more interested in how we integrate those things and, and to [00:14:15] see what emerges. And so what we deliberately created, um, for the storytelling residential was a space where, um, people felt very comfortable and felt very safe, um, and very relaxed. And like Sophie said, it was an opportunity to actually give some [00:14:30] respite for some of the activists who, many of whom are about to.
[00:14:32] Becky Burchell: Faced prison sentences and he subsequently did face prison sentences. Um, and we wanted it to be gentle and we didn’t want there to be any sense of [00:14:45] debate or conflict or anything that those activists have been facing, um, in their normal campaigning lives. And so all the details and all of the kind of love that gets put into that, not just from Sheep’s grave or um, sheep’s Grove Organic Farm, [00:15:00] where we was held.
[00:15:01] Becky Burchell: Um, but what Sophie and I brought to that in terms of grounding and breathing exercises, and we had Ong as part of it. We all shared meals together. We went on night walks. Um, we spent time down by the pond. And for us it’s [00:15:15] that sort of weaving of everything else into these artistic experiences. It’s not just this kind of siloed thing.
[00:15:21] Becky Burchell: This is sort of life. And we were trying to create an experience where, um, the activists felt comfortable and open enough to really [00:15:30] share what was in their hearts. And that’s why the stories that come out in the, in the documentary are so authentic because we were sat in circle and because we’d built that trust, um, and because we were listening.
[00:15:42] Becky Burchell: Often, you know, when they’re [00:15:45] going on radio shows and they’re being shouted at that people aren’t listening to them. So for us as storytellers and as artists, it was it, we created something which allowed those stories to emerge.
[00:15:56] Josie Colter: Yeah, because I suppose for so long, they just, I think when you’re in a position of defending [00:16:00] yourself, you never actually say what you want.
[00:16:01] Sophie Austin: No, no. You’re responding to the question that you’re being acting back regularly asked, which, yeah,
[00:16:06] Josie Colter: yeah,
[00:16:07] Sophie Austin: exactly
[00:16:07] Josie Colter: that. Um,
[00:16:08] Becky Burchell: yeah, and we, and there was a, there was a lot of stories that emerged around families and how families have responded, and actually that [00:16:15] came across as. Probably the hardest thing for the activists to hold was the challenges that they would get around the Christmas, um, you know, dinner table, um, or aunties and uncles that would challenge them.
[00:16:26] Becky Burchell: And, um, that feeling of being misunderstood [00:16:30] and trying to, trying to explain to people that didn’t wanna listen, why they were doing what they’re doing and, and why them. Out of all the people in the world that could do these actions, why are those. Those are people that are giving up their lives and putting their futures on the line to do what they’re doing and [00:16:45] being able to justify that to your mom is actually the hardest, the hardest story you’re gonna have to tell.
[00:16:51] Becky Burchell: So we have, I wanna hear
[00:16:52] Josie Colter: more. I’m like, honestly, the way you
[00:16:53] Becky Burchell: just pitched
[00:16:53] Josie Colter: that, I’m like, that sounds like the Netflix, like blockbuster. Like we need these stories. Well, this is [00:17:00] what, this is what we felt. And not even like, okay, let’s just not do climate mode for a second on a human level. They’re interesting.
[00:17:05] Josie Colter: Really. Vital stories of like when you put yourself in these positions that are really difficult and you’re gonna get a lot of backlash. Like Yeah. Why would you do that? [00:17:15] Yeah.
[00:17:16] Sophie Austin: Well, so one of the, um, the other outcomes, so when, when we sat around that table with Jonathan, we didn’t, we talked about having many different possibilities and the idea being that we would, would amplify these stories in many different ways because we all come from a multidisciplinary background.
[00:17:29] Sophie Austin: So we’re, [00:17:30] we’re able to do that. And so one of the, the first screening we. Had was at the Roundhouse in London where we invited people from across the media worlds, from arts, from to film, from tv, from theater, from uh, [00:17:45] uh, publishing, um, to, to sort of say, okay, here are some stories over to you. We can introduce you to these activists.
[00:17:52] Sophie Austin: You can see my film, but you make a film. You write the, the, the play about the mom and the, the daughter, you know, you, you. These [00:18:00] stories exist and we can help you find them. Um, because it’s, you know, I think as, as storytellers, as artists, it is our responsibility to, to sort of step away from the sort of media, newsroom, social media aspect and, [00:18:15] and get to the deeper heart of, of what we’re trying to say.
[00:18:17] Josie Colter: Yeah. Like, you don’t need to, like, your goal isn’t the clicks, right? No. So it’s like. Let’s not curate for that.
[00:18:24] Sophie Austin: Yeah.
[00:18:24] Josie Colter: Yeah.
[00:18:25] Becky Burchell: And Anna, one of the, um, one of the activists who threw the [00:18:30] soup at the Van Gogh painting was as part of our residential, and they were facing their, um, hearing, was it two weeks after?
[00:18:37] Becky Burchell: Mm-hmm. Um, and Anna was sent to prison and came out in January, um, but then was on tag for a long time. [00:18:45] And so we’ve spoken to Anna since and heard their journey, you know, from being waiting to go to prison or thought that they probably would go to prison and then being in prison, the experience that they had there and then their experience coming out and, you know, Anna’s [00:19:00] 23.
[00:19:01] Becky Burchell: And, you know, it’s, it’s extraordinary what they’ve had to go through, um, for essentially for our planet, for us, for all of us. Mm-hmm. And the, the difficulties they faced. Um, [00:19:15] just coming to terms with all the different. Pressures that they’re faced with as part of that journey. Mm-hmm. And, and it’s ongoing because that record now will sit with them for the rest of their life.
[00:19:26] Becky Burchell: That story about the action and the, and the fact that they’ve been [00:19:30] to prison will be with them. So it doesn’t end. It’s not like, oh, okay, I’ve stopped being an activist now. Doesn’t that chapter Shun? Yeah. It’s like,
[00:19:35] Josie Colter: no, not really. Absolutely.
[00:19:37] Challenges and legal battles
[00:19:37] Josie Colter: And do, do you think that it’s been made harder for them as well because of the 2023 Public Order Act?
[00:19:43] Josie Colter: Law change. [00:19:45] Absolutely.
[00:19:45] Becky Burchell: Absolutely. And that’s been a huge, huge pressure which has been unfolding for all of, all of the activists over the last three years. Um, that feeling of, um, the, you know, what, what it was. Designed to do, which was [00:20:00] to throttle activism to say, you know, don’t do it. Yeah. Non nonviolent activism.
[00:20:04] Becky Burchell: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, the sentences that are coming up now are the longest sentences in British history for any nonviolent action, which is completely shocking, especially under a labor government [00:20:15] with a prime minister
[00:20:15] Sophie Austin: that’s a human rights lawyer. And, and Raja will want us to say peaceful. Yeah, protest because nonviolent is the assumption that it could be violent and it isn’t.
[00:20:25] Sophie Austin: It’s always peaceful. Oh, that’s a really more distinction. I think again, it’s about language and about, you know, [00:20:30] how what we’re sold this, what story we’re told, and if we all continue to say nonviolent, there’s this expectation that it could be violent whereas’s or it’s coming from a
[00:20:37] Josie Colter: nasty place. It’s coming from a, it’s coming from us.
[00:20:39] Sophie Austin: Exactly. It’s, it is
[00:20:40] Josie Colter: absolutely there. Yeah. That’s right. Is there something that, you [00:20:45] know, some of these activists have said to you that’s during filming or Yeah, during your retreat that like has really stuck with you? Or keeps, like replaying in your mind? I mean, all of it, obviously. Mm-hmm.
[00:20:55] Becky Burchell: Yeah, there was some, there were some really, um, there were some really powerful [00:21:00] moments within a, um, Hannan who, um, was the activist who went on stage for Les Mis and, and held out.
[00:21:07] Becky Burchell: Um, A flag is now banned from Les Mis forever, and it’s her favorite show, and it’s why she chose to do [00:21:15] the action and. You know, again, it just, in a way, when you look at that from a zoomed up perspective, it’s kind of ludicrous. It’s just like it’s theater. It’s a show. It’s just, you know, it’s a show about, it’s a show
[00:21:26] Sophie Austin: test.
[00:21:27] Sophie Austin: Yeah. You know, it’s about revolution. She [00:21:30] knows every word. Yeah. She was on that stage for those actors, for those audience. To tell them, to remind them that this is not just theater, this is real life too.
[00:21:41] Becky Burchell: Yeah. Um, and then, yeah, there was a, there was a [00:21:45] quite a powerful story from Alex, um, who’s done a lot of actions, particularly the, um, particularly the oil refinery actions, um, and him talking about the, um.
[00:21:55] Becky Burchell: The, the sense of community that comes when you’re doing an action with lots [00:22:00] of other people. And they were chaining themselves to some really high and messy and difficult pipelines. Um, one of the activists that was um, that was there was scared of heights and was still was imt. Yeah. Was, was. Still putting herself through it and how they [00:22:15] supported her through that.
[00:22:16] Becky Burchell: And then when the police came and then them trying to get her down and she was still scared. And just that, just, just hearing the fears that people are facing and still doing, and still putting themselves into, I mean, most of us, you know, wouldn’t, wouldn’t even dream [00:22:30] of putting ourselves in a position of getting arrested.
[00:22:31] Becky Burchell: Let. Putting ourselves in a position of getting arrested and facing our deepest fear at the same time. Um, so yeah, there was some, there were some really powerful stories that came out of it. Um,
[00:22:42] Sophie Austin: I think the stories that stuck with me also were from the [00:22:45] courtroom, and that is where, you know, a lot of these fights are being now fought and that it does come down to a particular judge.
[00:22:52] Sophie Austin: And their particular beef about your action rather than the climate or, and you know, [00:23:00] what was so interesting was how much their defense is curtailed now because of the, the various orders that have been put in place. And so when they are standing up in front of their peers and not even able to sort of justify why, [00:23:15] because they, they’re not allowed to mention the climate crisis in court.
[00:23:18] Sophie Austin: Um, that really sticks with me. Because what is the law for, you know? And I, uh, yeah. I found, I found, you know, the, the, [00:23:30] the accounts of being in, in, in court really quite. Kafkaesque. I mean, everyone, that’s what we always say. It’s ludicrous. It’s, it’s, um, it’s not Right.
[00:23:40] Josie Colter: Well, also you are, you are under oath, right?
[00:23:42] Josie Colter: You’re being told to tell the truth. Mm-hmm. And then you’re not [00:23:45] able to. Mm-hmm. So what’s the point? Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
[00:23:48] Becky Burchell: Yeah. And, and, and equally, you know, there’s, again, it’s not, it’s not an unusual thing, but the raids that are happening on activists as well, people that have done some very, very minor actions and, you know, the police will break into their house at six [00:24:00] o’clock in the morning.
[00:24:01] Becky Burchell: Um, you know, drag them out of bed, take all their laptops away, take their work laptop away, take phones away to go and check them, take game consoles away. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s, they’re being treated like terrorists. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and, [00:24:15] you know. Again, the story’s about the mum that opens the door to the police at six in the morning that it’s just like.
[00:24:22] Becky Burchell: What the hell is going on. Yeah. And, and so frightened, and that’s happened as well with the youth demand arrests recently as well. Some really nasty stories that’s come [00:24:30] from that. So, um, yeah, it’s really important to hear the details of those because it really, it, it puts you in their position and really helps you understand what they’re going through and what they’re putting themselves through
[00:24:42] Sophie Austin: for the rest of us.
[00:24:43] Maryam Pasha: Mm-hmm.
[00:24:43] Sophie Austin: And what we are all allowing [00:24:45] by not being angry about it and not questioning it. Um, you know, you probably heard the story about the Quaker meeting that got, or the, the meeting at the Quaker house that got disrupted and, you know, these are a group of young women talking, just talking [00:25:00] about the climate crisis.
[00:25:01] Sophie Austin: Uh, and they were raided and it, you know, for what? Um. And yeah, there’s not enough being done as far as I’m concerned about asking questions about why, why that’s, you know, why that’s happening.
[00:25:14] Josie Colter: [00:25:15] Mm-hmm. And like these, this law change has, it’s actually emboldened the real climate criminals, right? Yeah.
[00:25:20] Josie Colter: Because like for example now, um, oil. Uh, summits or what the AGMs, um, they’re being held by, um, [00:25:30] held in hotels, like on airports because it’s like, okay, activists can’t be near air like this, close to airports. And it’s like, so now they’re literally holding their like summits. Unchallenged. Mm. Which is a, that’s like, and then again, it’s like being [00:25:45] challenged when you are being a climate criminal should be something that should be happening.
[00:25:48] Becky Burchell: Yeah, exactly. Absolutely. And, and this is a question that got asked of just oil in particular. A lot of times they’re like, why aren’t you going after the actual climate criminals? Why aren’t you going after the oil companies? Why aren’t you trying to shut down, [00:26:00] um, the big polluters? And they did try that tactic for a while, but it wouldn’t get the press.
[00:26:04] Becky Burchell: It didn’t get the story out there, and so then people weren’t having the conversations around it. So they, you know, in order to get the conversation high up the public and political agenda, they had to go for cultural [00:26:15] icons. Um, and, and so then again, the theater and the story of that becomes this explosive, big talking point.
[00:26:22] Becky Burchell: Whereas actually the impact of that is a lot less than if you were actually shutting down an oil refinery. Absolutely. Because then of course you are. Rightly [00:26:30] targeting the people that are, are harming us, but that didn’t get the press that it needed. Mm-hmm. And, you know, partly didn’t get the press ’cause the press is owned by, you know, 80% of the press is owned by five billionaires who’ve all got their hands in the oil and gas industry.
[00:26:43] Becky Burchell: I had a final
[00:26:44] Final thoughts
[00:26:44] Josie Colter: question for [00:26:45] you, which was say someone watches this film or like, what do you want ’em to think or like do next? I’d like ’em to share
[00:26:52] Sophie Austin: it. Um, because I think then having a conversation with someone that watches it too, then you can carry on that [00:27:00] conversation. I’d like them to remember it and tell the story of it and tell someone about what they saw.
[00:27:06] Sophie Austin: Last night I watched this thing and there were these. These criminals, but they’re not criminals. Um, I’d like them to tell it more articulately than that, but you know, I think [00:27:15] I want them to take these stories on and do something with them. Mm-hmm. Uh, and that can be, yeah, sharing it on a tweet, sharing it to a friend, sharing it to, um, to a child to say, this is the situation that we’re in.
[00:27:29] Sophie Austin: [00:27:30] Um, and then, yeah, I want ’em to be angry. And I would like, you know, anger is probably not Raja, so is Channel Rajan. Um, it’s probably not what he would want, but, you know, [00:27:45] I want them to understand the love that is, that is there within the activist community for them. Mm-hmm. And to repay that in some way.
[00:27:53] Becky Burchell: Hmm. Yeah, and I think for me, the overriding energy of the [00:28:00] film and all the work that we are doing is that this is about people’s own hearts and feelings. It’s about, you know, the reason that activists are acting is because they feel so deeply and they feel so concerned about what’s happening. And, um, you know, they are incredibly well [00:28:15] researched, but the film and the work we are doing and the stories we want to tell is not about a debate.
[00:28:21] Becky Burchell: This isn’t a debate about the climate crisis, whether it’s happening or how bad it is. It’s about what compels people to act and what concerns us. [00:28:30] And when you ask people what concerns about the act, activist actions, they say, I’m concerned about disruption. But of course, if they’re concerned about disruption, they need to be concerned about the climate crisis.
[00:28:39] Becky Burchell: And so once I think people recognize that their concerns are the same as the activists, no one, everyone wants to live [00:28:45] happy and healthy life, then they can find that common ground. Um, and I think that’s what I’d love people to take away from it, that these, that there’s, there’s the solidarity within what they’re doing for everyone.
[00:28:58] Josie Colter: That’s so beautifully put. [00:29:00] Well, thank you so much for joining Climate Curious and yeah, everyone go Wa watch the film Climate Criminals question mark.
[00:29:09] Maryam Pasha: Thank you. Thank you. Thanks.
[00:29:12] Maryam Pasha: Thank you for joining us this week. We really hope you’ve enjoyed this episode.
[00:29:15] Ben Hurst: If you did, please hit. Follow button to make sure that you get next week’s releases.
[00:29:20] Maryam Pasha: And why not reach out with your very own climate confessions?
[00:29:23] Ben Hurst: While you’re at it, please leave a rating and a review.
[00:29:26] Maryam Pasha: Now let’s shout out to our fabulous team behind the pod [00:29:30]
[00:29:30] Ben Hurst: executive, produced by Josie Colter,
[00:29:32] Maryam Pasha: produced by Ben Beheshty
[00:29:34] Ben Hurst: Music, also by Ben Beheshty,
[00:29:36] Maryam Pasha: communications by Tara Cooper and Izzy Gladston,
[00:29:39] Ben Hurst: curation by Deesha Chandra.
[00:29:41] Maryam Pasha: Hosted by Ben Hurst.
[00:29:43] Ben Hurst: I’m Maryam Pasha.
[00:29:44] Maryam Pasha: And [00:29:45] remember,
[00:29:45] Ben Hurst: stay curious.
