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“It sounds totally preposterous now –excluding the climate impact of burning oil,” says Tessa Khan, environmental lawyer, campaigner, and founder of Uplift. Live on stage at Climate Curious Live in London, Tessa breaks down the legal strategy behind taking the previous UK government to court over its approval of the Rosebank oil field, and how they won! She unpacks the loopholes Big Oil has long relied on, the far-reaching implications of the UK Supreme Court’s landmark ruling for climate policy, and why the billionaire-funded lobbying machine is finally starting to slip. Recorded in conversation with Climate Curious co-hosts Maryam Pasha and Ben Hurst.
Enjoyed this conversation? Listen to the full interview with Tessa Khan on Climate Curious: https://tedxlondon.com/podcasts/the-uks-biggest-climate-wins-and-what-comes-next-with-tessa-khan/
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Created by TEDxLondon
Executive produced by Josie Colter
Produced by Ben Beheshty
Curated by Deesha Chandra
Hosted by Maryam Pasha and Ben Hurst
Communications by Tara Cooper and Issey Gladston
00:00 Welcome to Climate Curious
00:56 How climate cases start
01:28 Rosebank legal challenge
02:38 The key legal breakthrough
03:47 What happens after winning
04:56 Big Oil playbook exposed
07:44 Profit over people
08:12 Wrap up and credits
Welcome to Climate Curious
[00:00:00] Maryam Pasha: Welcome to Climate Curious Quickies, bite-sized nuggets of Climate Goodness. From our TEDx experts in under 10 minutes
[00:00:09] Ben Hurst: In this week’s climate, curious, we are looking back at a huge legal win against [00:00:15] big oil as part of our climate. Curious Live the Climate OGs.
[00:00:19] Ben Hurst: We had the powerful Tessa Khan legal Titan and key figure in putting a halt on the Rose Bank oil field.
[00:00:27] Ben Hurst: Tessa walks us through exactly how they took the [00:00:30] UK government to court holding them accountable for the environmental impact of new oil and gas on the country, and how big oil had managed to sidestep environmental accountability. Until now on how we are [00:00:45] taking our power back from Big Oil. Here’s our conversation with founder of uplift, Tessa Khan.
[00:00:50] Ben Hurst: Stay curious.
How climate cases start
[00:00:56] Maryam Pasha: So I know that now, like when your work with uplift, use lots of [00:01:00] different tools, but can we talk about law for a moment? You know, you’ve worked on all these different cases. What is that process? How do you find a case that you think this is something that can not just win, but set that precedent and taking it through and just talk us through that a little bit, [00:01:15] that role of the law?
[00:01:16] Tessa Khan: Yeah, so really as I said, you know, you have to start by figuring out who it is that is responsible for the thing that you are trying to. Prevent usually, or you know, that you’re trying to encourage.
Rosebank legal challenge
[00:01:28] Tessa Khan: Um, and so most recently my organization uplift, um, took the UK government to court, um, in addition to Greenpeace.
[00:01:37] Tessa Khan: This was the previous government, I should say, not this government. Um, and that was, um, in relation to a [00:01:45] decision that. The last government made to approve the Rosebank oil field, right, which is the largest undeveloped oil field in the uk. It, you know, developing it would involve extracting in the order of 500 million barrels of oil at a point when the [00:02:00] science is really clear that we just can’t afford to have.
[00:02:03] Tessa Khan: Additional fossil fuel supply added to existing supply if we’re gonna stay within safe climate limits. So anyway, so we were not happy about that. Um, and
[00:02:11] Ben Hurst: understandably.
[00:02:12] Tessa Khan: Yeah.
[00:02:12] Ben Hurst: Yeah,
[00:02:12] Tessa Khan: yeah. And, and what is clear [00:02:15] is, and what you look at in these cases is like, you know, what are the duties that governments have to actually do the right things?
[00:02:21] Tessa Khan: So, you know, do they have duties to protect people? Do they have duties to protect the environment? It turns out they do. You know, in a country like the [00:02:30] UK. Um, there’s a whole range of those responsibilities, whether they’re rooted in, in domestic law or in international law.
The key legal breakthrough
[00:02:38] Tessa Khan: And so in that particular case, um, one of the things that was very clear is that the, the government is actually supposed to do an environmental impact assessment before it approves major new oil and gas projects.
[00:02:52] Tessa Khan: Um, and conveniently at the time when it made those assessments, it excluded the single largest. [00:03:00] Environmental impact of opening up a new oil and gas field. Which is, uh, the climate impact of burning the oil and gas. So that sort of sounds like totally preposterous now, but it’s how the law had [00:03:15] developed up until that point.
[00:03:16] Tessa Khan: So Uplift made the argument, Greenpeace made the argument, and it was on the back of a very important legal victory by another climate campaign of Sarah Finch the previous year in the Supreme Court. Where the Supreme Court was like, yeah, you know what, that’s kind of crazy that [00:03:30] the government’s doing environmental wow.
[00:03:32] Tessa Khan: Impact assessments of fossil fuel projects without considering the implications of burning those fossil fuels. Right? And so, um, so, so we won. And, but you know, that was really rooted, as I said, in the fact that the government [00:03:45] does have a responsibility to protect the environment.
What happens after winning
[00:03:47] Maryam Pasha: What happens after a win like that?
[00:03:49] Maryam Pasha: Because, you know, I feel like that’s not the end of the story. It’s, yeah. What happens now?
[00:03:54] Tessa Khan: Yeah. It definitely isn’t the end of the story, especially in the uk if what you’re doing is [00:04:00] challenging, um, a government decision, usually the result is that the decision is basically nullified. Like it’s as though the decision was never taken, and then the government’s ask to make the decision again.
[00:04:12] Tessa Khan: But this time in a way that’s consistent with the [00:04:15] law. So we are now in a position where the UK government is. Once again, considering the application by the oil and gas companies in question, um, to who want to develop the field. So, uh, it’s [00:04:30] really basically our job right now as the government’s considering it to make every possible argument.
[00:04:35] Tessa Khan: And there are loads of them, and I would love to run through them with you all, um, loads of reasons, not just on environmental grounds, why developing rosebank would be a, a disastrous [00:04:45] idea for the British public. Um, but so it’s our job to. Kind of constantly make those arguments heard so that the government is aware of them while they’re now reconsidering that decision.
Big Oil playbook exposed
[00:04:56] Maryam Pasha: How have the tactics of, I guess [00:05:00] I’m gonna call ’em, the opposition, changed over time?
[00:05:03] Ben Hurst: The opposition. That’s spooky, isn’t it? Yeah, they might be in the room.
[00:05:09] Tessa Khan: It might
[00:05:10] be,
[00:05:11] Tessa Khan: um, well, I mean, this is all public knowledge, so I’ve got nothing, [00:05:15] nothing secret to tell you or to disclose here. Um, so if we’re talking about the fossil fuel industry, I mean, their tactics have been.
[00:05:25] Tessa Khan: Pretty consistent, I would say, um, over decades. [00:05:30] It, you know, of course depends on which part of the world you’re living in, that in some countries the fossil fuel industry feels much more emboldened to, you know, assassinate, environmental activists. And, you know, in countries like the Philippines and Brazil, that’s, that happens, you [00:05:45] know, those countries have huge rates of environmental defenders being murdered for the work that they do to, um, protect the environment.
[00:05:51] Tessa Khan: But, you know, more generally speaking, so. Oil and gas companies, and again, this is a matter of public record now, but they have for [00:06:00] decades. Despite knowing, you know, internally commissioning science and reports like Shell was doing in the early 1980s, that show that burning fossil fuels leads to the generation of greenhouse gases, which leads to climate change, which will have, you know, a whole set [00:06:15] of inevitable devastating consequences on, on people.
[00:06:18] Tessa Khan: You know, they have chosen to set up think tanks, fund, think tanks that. Create alternative versions of the science, or you know, they pay lobbyists literally [00:06:30] billions of pounds to meet with politicians and to, and to meet with journalists and to influence the public debate. So that what is a very clear scientific consensus around the role that fossil fuels play in the climate crisis becomes much murkier.
[00:06:44] Tessa Khan: [00:06:45] Um, you know, and in addition to that, they. Have cultural power as well, you know, and I know you know lots about that, Merriam, so I defer to you, but you know, the fossil fuel industry. Pays for influencers on social media to talk [00:07:00] about why it’s impossible to cook a, a, a steak without using gas. You know, it’s like, it’s, it’s such a huge suite of tactics and that’s why I think it’s also so important for all of us.
[00:07:12] Tessa Khan: To use all of the different kinds of [00:07:15] power that we have to challenge those narratives and to challenge that power.
[00:07:18] Ben Hurst: Is that not cra is it? Is that crazy? That’s crazy, right? Like that they do that. That is crazy. ’cause I feel, I feel like there’s no reaction to these things. And sometimes when we have these conversations, this is a very strange, a surreal [00:07:30] experience for me.
[00:07:30] Ben Hurst: ’cause you guys can see my face while people are talking, but like, I’m like. Are the, are they psychopaths? Like what’s, is this, is it fair? Is that a fair assessment? You can’t speak on that. You’re a lawyer. Okay. I, no problem. No problem.
Profit over people
[00:07:44] Tessa Khan: I mean, what, you know what [00:07:45] I’ll say in maybe slightly more diplomatic terms is that, you know, it’s an industry on the whole that has.
[00:07:52] Tessa Khan: Uniformly put its profit ahead of every other public interest, right. And imperative. And that is, [00:08:00] in my view, morally indefensible. Um, it might make you rich in the short term mm-hmm. But you know, if you’ve got kids or grandkids, like it’s in your interest that there’s a livable planet for them to enjoy.
Wrap Up and Credits
[00:08:12] Ben Hurst: Thanks for listening to this quickie.
[00:08:14] Maryam Pasha: This episode was [00:08:15] created by our superstar podcast team at TEDxLondon. Until next time,
[00:08:19] Ben Hurst: stay curious.
