Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | RSS | Android
Kimiko Hirata shares her vision of a carbon-free Japan, and how shifting from “no” to “yes” is the key to mobilising people and government towards positive change. In the wake of the Fukushima nuclear disaster, Japan had the opportunity to keep its commitments to renewable energy, says Goldman Environmental Prize winner and environmental activist Kimiko. Instead Japan closed its nuclear sites and went all in on coal power plants and stands as the country with the fifth most coal power plants in the world. Kimiko joins Climate Curious to share why positive action is more powerful than negative narratives in decarbonising a nation. Recorded live at TED Countdown 2025 in conversation with Climate Curious co-host Ben Hurst.
Buy your ticket to join TEDxLondon Global Idea Search, November 24th:https://tedxlondon.com/tedx-global-idea-search/
Join the Climate Curious conversation on socials:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/climatecuriouspod/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@climatecuriouspod
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtF6xzNkVIczlDmVcH8FCMA
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/10996041/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TEDxLondon
Website: https://tedxlondon.com/podcast/
All other links: https://linktr.ee/climatecuriouspod
Created by TEDxLondon
Executive produced by Josie Colter
Produced by Ben Beheshty
Curated by Deesha Chandra
Hosted by Maryam Pasha and Ben Hurst
Communications by Tara Cooper and Issey Gladston
00:00 Introduction
00:08 Japan’s coal dependency post-Fukushima
00:55 Kimiko’s shift from ‘No’ to ‘Yes’
01:33 Challenges in achieving decarbonization
02:17 Empowering people with information
04:51 Cultural barriers to change
07:46 Vision for a renewable Japan
12:25 Conclusion
[00:00:00] Introduction
[00:00:00] Maryam Pasha: Welcome to Climate Quickies, bite-sized nuggets of Climate Goodness. From our TEDx London experts in under five minutes
[00:00:08] Japan’s coal dependency post-Fukushima
[00:00:08] Ben Hurst: in this week’s climate, curious, we are talking about Japan specifically its resilience on coal, following the [00:00:15] tragic Fukushima nuclear disaster in 2011, and now how Goldman Environmental Prize Winner and activist Kim Cota is inspiring people and politicians.
[00:00:26] Ben Hurst: To embrace a carbon free Japan for many years of her [00:00:30] saying no to new coal plants, MKO shares the breakthrough realization she had of shifting narratives from, no, we can’t build coal to yes, we can create a fully renewable energy. Japan. Let’s head over to Mko to hear how [00:00:45] solutions solutions-focused reframing can help move people towards the best outcomes whilst acknowledging the scars of the past.
[00:00:52] Ben Hurst: Stay curious.
[00:00:55] Kimiko’s shift from ‘No’ to ‘Yes’
[00:00:55] Kimiko Hirata: So my talk, um, on my TED Talk, it’s about [00:01:00] my transition from saying no to saying yes. Mm. So I’ve been campaigning, I had been campaigning about climate, uh, and also fighting against. New coal power development mm-hmm. In Japan after the Fukushima nuclear [00:01:15] accident. Mm-hmm. So I’ve been saying no for new construction and then I’ve been, made some success.
[00:01:20] Kimiko Hirata: But after that, you know, uh, just saying no isn’t enough. That’s what I discovered. Mm-hmm. So I try more in multiple approach [00:01:30] to make the transition happen. Mm-hmm. So I will talk about that.
[00:01:33] Challenges in Achieving Decarbonization
[00:01:33] Kimiko Hirata: Many people think that. Decarbonization is our national goal. Mm-hmm. Government commit to net zero.
[00:01:40] Ben Hurst: Oh. They’ve committed to net zero.
[00:01:42] Ben Hurst: Okay. Yes.
[00:01:42] Kimiko Hirata: However, [00:01:45] including the government, the company, so even people don’t think that it’s possible, right? It’s too difficult, it’s target somewhere up there. Mm-hmm. But how do we do that? We have no, you know, answers. No plan. No plan and no answer. [00:02:00] So, um. How can we make this, you know, to be seen possible.
[00:02:06] Kimiko Hirata: Mm-hmm. It’s something that we need to challenge. Um, and so yeah, that’s, that’s one of the reason I found it on [00:02:15] climate integrate as a think tank.
[00:02:17] Empowering people with information
[00:02:17] Kimiko Hirata: We have lack, we lack the good information to see that this is possible. Mm-hmm. Um, so what’s lacking? Good information about technologies and good information about the cost, good information about the prosperity in line with the, you know, decarbonization.
[00:02:38] Kimiko Hirata: So people just see that continuation of status quo is much better than making big change. Right, right. Our line [00:02:45] wants to, you know, be calm and quiet and relax and then just continuation. Yeah. And the Japanese, you know, living standard was not that bad, so Yeah. Even. Not, not so super happy, but still it’s okay.
[00:02:59] Kimiko Hirata: You know? [00:03:00] So that kind of, you know, uh, the mindset Yeah. That the Japanese people have. So it’s difficult to, you know, mobilize people that we need change. Mm-hmm. Let’s do make, let’s make change. So, yeah. So [00:03:15] how we can, you know, in those people to take a step for. Taking action for climate change. Right.
[00:03:23] Kimiko Hirata: That’s, that’s a big challenge. So not just saying No, I think we need to create some [00:03:30] space for people to say, oh, we can do this. Yeah. Or this is the pathway that we can take. It’s not dangerous. Yeah. And it’s possible. And it’s not that expensive. So, uh, what we started, uh, by presenting the [00:03:45] fact-based information that how can we do that?
[00:03:47] Kimiko Hirata: Right. And. How much does it cost? Oh, it’s not that costly. Renewable energy is getting cheaper and cheaper. And do we have land in such a small country? Yes, we do. You [00:04:00] must. There’s, there are many empty rooftops in many buildings in Japan, so we can put the, in the rooftop. So, so there are many, you know, ways to, you know, take a step forward.
[00:04:10] Kimiko Hirata: So we are presenting that to people.
[00:04:13] Ben Hurst: Oh, it’s so interesting. So you’re [00:04:15] dealing with a population who are generally like mm-hmm. Not. They’re not, they don’t think it’s the worst. They don’t think it’s the best. They’re comfortable. They don’t necessarily want the change or the discomfort that comes with the change.
[00:04:26] Ben Hurst: And your idea here is that what they need [00:04:30] to know is the information, the facts. Yes. Uh, that it is possible, that it is achievable. That it’s not as expensive as they, as they will think it is. And so how do you envision, or how do you see this impacting the, the public narrative [00:04:45] around the urgency of, of climate change or trying to get to net zero?
[00:04:48] Ben Hurst: You see? Seen it having a change or an impact in, in the culture?
[00:04:51] Cultural barriers to change
[00:04:51] Kimiko Hirata: People is fear. Climate change. We have extreme heat and landsliding after the flood and [00:05:00] uh, people are worried about, you know, the child, childrens, you know, how they can, you know, protect them and food or vegetables or fish, you know. Um. Or affected by changing climate, so people feel worrying [00:05:15] about it, concerned about it, but that doesn’t necessarily connect it to doing something.
[00:05:21] Kimiko Hirata: To change things. Yeah.
[00:05:22] Ben Hurst: Yeah. I feel that there’s a big gap between saying something wrong and being like, I can do something about
[00:05:27] Kimiko Hirata: it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And especially in [00:05:30] Japan, we have a very conservative government for long time. Mm-hmm. Uh, so not that big, you know, regime change happen occasionally, so people don’t see that.
[00:05:42] Kimiko Hirata: A power to change [00:05:45] something people, you know, doesn’t trust themself, that we have a power. Telling people that you are the one to make change, to save this world or, or protect your [00:06:00] climate. So I think, um, this is very important to start from on the ground and talk with people that this is the, we are the one to, you know, take a step forward.
[00:06:13] Kimiko Hirata: So that’s quite, you know, [00:06:15] challenging in this community. People don’t wanna say no to the government. No. Saying no to the government is bad thing. That’s, you know, you’re not supposed to do that. Yeah. Yeah. That we have a culture of to respect people Yeah. Or have [00:06:30] harmony, you know? Yeah. Um, so in this culture, how can we can cultivate, you know, the, the, the momentum to take action.
[00:06:39] Kimiko Hirata: So that’s what I’m challenged. Very different from what I have done for fighting against coal power.
[00:06:44] Ben Hurst: Yeah. [00:06:45] Yeah. Yeah. Because easy to motivate people or mobilize people against something. Yeah. But much more difficult to move people Yeah. Into believing something’s possible. Yeah. Um, and believing that they should be part of that.
[00:06:55] Ben Hurst: And I love this idea that like the, the story that you are telling is so [00:07:00] contextual to the people you are telling the story to. Mm-hmm. They’re all of these like rules or unwritten kind of norms about how we respect people. Yeah. How we respect culture. Yeah. What we believe about ourselves. Yeah. Um, what we believe about disruption, maybe.
[00:07:13] Ben Hurst: Mm-hmm. Um, and so I know [00:07:15] that with climate integrate your target in specifically the power sector, you’re thinking about 2035, uh, trying to reach net zero, trying to decarbonize the, the country, trying to decarbonize the nation. Uh, I’m wondering like if there are any key either [00:07:30] maybe policy or technological kind of, uh, levers that might be.
[00:07:35] Ben Hurst: Particularly useful when it comes to reaching this goal. And what are the things like practically that you’re trying to get people to mm-hmm. To buy into? What are the things that you want people to [00:07:45] change?
[00:07:46] Kimiko Hirata: Yeah.
[00:07:46] Vision for a renewable Japan
[00:07:46] Kimiko Hirata: So my vision is to, uh, promote renewable energy by up to 90%. And in achieve food decarbonization it’s big vision.
[00:07:56] Kimiko Hirata: Mm-hmm. Uh, so my primary target is of course, [00:08:00] yes. Uh, from our prime Minister. Yeah. And yes, from big corporates know, yes, from big utilities. Our primary retarget is big one. You know, we who have power right? To make big change. But, um, the [00:08:15] reason I am working on a communications or narrative is because. If we, we really want to change that big, you know, figures.
[00:08:24] Kimiko Hirata: You know, we have power to change. We need to have power, people power [00:08:30] to say yes for this change. Mm. Uh, without having that power. This, you know, the co companies or government who have power, just listen to the people who have power already in the Yeah. They wont be accountable, [00:08:45] vested interest or incumbent.
[00:08:47] Kimiko Hirata: Right. So I think what is lacking in our community and and country is the voice and power of people. Mm-hmm. So even though my institute is [00:09:00] think Tank, doing the policy work or research. I strongly feel that having power from people is necessary in order to achieve that politician. And with regard to the [00:09:15] policy, there’s not single.
[00:09:17] Kimiko Hirata: You know, easy solutions. Unfortunately, unfortunately we need to have a North star, like high, you know, ambitious target, but also we need to remove many, many barriers in the tech [00:09:30] technical term. Great access, or you know, the. The, the, the, uh, market system. Mm. Electricity market or regulation, carbon pricing, a lot of things needs to be done.
[00:09:41] Kimiko Hirata: Mm-hmm. But once we have a strong voice to say yes [00:09:45] for renewable energy, I think that it’s gonna be a strong power to, you know, dialect, to the, you know, uh, the different technical pieces, uh, to be changed. So I think, um, what is necessarily is. [00:10:00] Political will and the people’s will.
[00:10:02] Ben Hurst: Mm-hmm.
[00:10:03] Kimiko Hirata: To go. To protect climate.
[00:10:05] Ben Hurst: Yeah, I like that as a plan. ’cause it sounds very achievable. Like it doesn’t sound like that considering how many things there are to change. You could get lost in the weeds of [00:10:15] trying to do this and this and this and this, but instead you’re focusing on political will, public will, um, and moving people towards better visions of what the future could be like.
[00:10:25] Ben Hurst: Um, and I guess actually maybe. A, a nice place for us to kind of wrap [00:10:30] up here is in terms of that vision of the future, what does your vision for a, a fully decarbonized Japan look like? What are you imagining, what do you think it will, will be like when you see that?
[00:10:43] Kimiko Hirata: Well, um, [00:10:45] Japanese people and Japanese culture is very attached to and connected to nature.
[00:10:50] Kimiko Hirata: Mm. And sometimes people are very spiritual. Mm-hmm. And the people have a very good, you know, sense of being nature. [00:11:00] Um, and, but many of us forget about that. Hmm. In the, in the current, you know, the economic, you know. Yeah, very. Which weird
[00:11:10] Ben Hurst: subject nature is a different thing that we use. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
[00:11:13] Ben Hurst: And
[00:11:13] Kimiko Hirata: then also [00:11:15] we other people to care each other. So I think with, you know, the flow of renewable energy, this is locally sourced. Mm. People can build renewable energy by their own choice. Mm-hmm. And then people use it, [00:11:30] and then people, you know, uh, share these technologies and then electricity together. So I think it is my vision for the a hundred percent renewable energy Japan is people are [00:11:45] so happy, uh, with renewable energy nearby, not from Middle East, not from Australian coal, uh, but uh, very.
[00:11:53] Kimiko Hirata: Environmental friendly and then get back to our beauty of [00:12:00] being Japanese people. Hmm. So I think, um. The Japanese doesn’t have much issue about, you know, poverty like many other countries, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that people are happy. Right.
[00:12:12] Kimiko Hirata: So I think bringing, you know, [00:12:15] back the happiness to our, you know, life is something that I envisioning
[00:12:20] Ben Hurst: Yeah.
[00:12:21] Kimiko Hirata: In the align, the, you know, decarbonization pathway.
[00:12:25] Conclusion
[00:12:25] Ben Hurst: Thanks for listening to this quickie.
[00:12:27] Maryam Pasha: This episode was created by our superstar [00:12:30] podcast team at TEDxLondon. Until next time,
[00:12:32] Ben Hurst: stay curious.
